GOODIES!!!!

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Soul
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GOODIES!!!!

Post by Soul »

X mas came early, install this weekend.

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87 Ranger: Coast High Performance 331 kit 28oz balance, Comp XE264HR14 cam, 64cc 185 AFR heads, 1.7 roller rockers, Full manual reverse VB c4
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Re: GOODIES!!!!

Post by cgrey8 »

Don't expect the tune in that EEC to work well. The EEC Tuning forum is notorious for people showing up looking for help on how to fix problems with their MassFlo system because the tune just isn't done right. The good news is most figure it out and find they tune the issues out pretty easily.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: GOODIES!!!!

Post by MalcolmV8 »

What's the difference between that Mass-Flo A9L and a standard Ford A9L?
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

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Re: GOODIES!!!!

Post by cgrey8 »

MassFlo usually chips an A9L with a custom tune that updates the tune for things like the MAF curve & Injectors included in their kit, a different CID value based on your engine, and possibly spark advance adjustments. Commonly that's about all that's changed and there's usually lots more that needs changing such as idle controls, MAF curve tweaks based on actual MAF performance as installed in the customer's engine bay, and of course their spark advance values are just estimates. Every engine/head/compression/cam combo is going to be different. The only way to know what the spark advance should be for any given RPM/Load is to tune it on a dyno running a high enough octane fuel to not detonate before hitting Max Brake Torque (MBT) advance. However when running 87 octane regular pump gas, your ear can hear where the advance needs to be retarded.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: GOODIES!!!!

Post by Soul »

I basically went this route as I couldn't beat the price for the setup I wanted. By time I got a new dist, intake, TB, and wiring harness they were cheaper or as much for used stuff.

I was hoping I could eventually tune the ecu same as a mustang, glad you know of some ppl doing this alrdy C-Grey. Do they just use a mustang strat/bin whatever or is there something more complicated involved?
87 Ranger: Coast High Performance 331 kit 28oz balance, Comp XE264HR14 cam, 64cc 185 AFR heads, 1.7 roller rockers, Full manual reverse VB c4
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Re: GOODIES!!!!

Post by cgrey8 »

Most people I know abandon the A9L tune altogether and start with an X3Z (93 Cobra) tune. Some people find the X3Z runs better "out of the box" than the A9L. However other people find the A9L works better for them. But if I recall right, the MassFlo people all find the X3Z tune works better as a starting point instead of the A9L...but I could be wrong. Either way, there are plenty of MassFlo guys on the forum that came there because the MassFlo tune doesn't come close to being an acceptable tune for them. The good news is the people that have gone the self-tuning route have all figured out what they needed and gotten their setup running the way they like. The MassFlo hardware (TB, intake, distributor, etc) are all great products. But what ruins it all is their tune-by-mail abilities with an A9L are not that great. But these older EECs are much more difficult than more modern EECs to tune-by-mail.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: GOODIES!!!!

Post by Soul »

Thanks! I'm on eec reading, might start here and move on to tuning. As always I appreciate you guys replying.
87 Ranger: Coast High Performance 331 kit 28oz balance, Comp XE264HR14 cam, 64cc 185 AFR heads, 1.7 roller rockers, Full manual reverse VB c4
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Re: GOODIES!!!!

Post by cgrey8 »

BTW, for the non-EEC people out there, the X3Z tune is a GUFB tune just like the A9L. So the X3Z tune is fully compatible with the A9L EEC. Thus a tuning device such as a TwEECer or Moates Quarterhorse can be loaded with an X3Z tune and connected to an A9L EEC with no problem. I'm not suggesting he replace the A9L with an X3Z box. That's not necessary.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: GOODIES!!!!

Post by Soul »

I might bug you in a month or 2 to help me figure out what tuning parts I need to make sure I got everything covered. Looks like QH is a better option then tweecer. Hopefully I don't get the *high idle* issue everyone with mass flo has.
87 Ranger: Coast High Performance 331 kit 28oz balance, Comp XE264HR14 cam, 64cc 185 AFR heads, 1.7 roller rockers, Full manual reverse VB c4
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Re: GOODIES!!!!

Post by cgrey8 »

Unfortunately, that's a tough one to fix if you do. I suspect the high idle issue is related to how they made the TB. The ISC can only add more air to raise an idle. It can't stop the flow of air through the butterflies. So if you have the butterflies closed down as tight as they'll go & the ISC is unplugged and you still you have a high idle...too bad, so sad. It is what it is. Otherwise, high idle is quite tuneable.

As for guidance on what to buy, just read over the FAQs on the EECTuning.org site about what you need to know BEFORE buying a TwEECer or Quarterhorse and read all the threads it references. That's your best "quick start" I can suggest. Anything else I could say would likely be a repeat of what's already in FAQ repository. However if you have specific questions that are not answered or addressed in the FAQ section topics, then by all means, start a new thread asking those questions. Just be mindful to follow the site's Best Practices when creating threads. I don't have control of what people do on this forum, but over there, I'm a bit of a stickler for making sure threads have meaningful titles and that people don't ask humpteen unrelated questions in the same thread. I've learned from experience not to do that. It seems convenient to do that at the time. But looking back on threads where I've done just that here on this forum, I have a heck of a time finding the answers I was looking for. Where if I'd created a thread for each unrelated question, the search would give me what I'm looking for a lot quicker.

For those curious what best practices I'm talking about are, here's a link:
EECTuning.org>How to get started and Best Practices

As stated in the Best Practices thread, it'll be worth your time to review the Glossary of tuning terms used on the site. While things like MAF, ISC, and ECT may be common knowledge to most gear head with Fuel Injection experience, exact usages for "tuning" terms like Load, Load%, lambda, LAMBSE, KAMRF, and Scaling Functions are not likely common vocabulary for non DIY tuners. So knowing what those things are and how they are used is important to communicating effectively with others about DIY tuning.

I'm always updating and adding things to those threads as I identify things that can go in there. Although I have to admit, I haven't had to touch them nearly so often here recently.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: GOODIES!!!!

Post by Grumpy »

Chris... is the A9L code hard to find or something ??? i checked my ECM and its the A9L one ... i think i might have a couple more also .... if ya need one and i got a spare... you are welcome to it to get the code off or whatever ya like .....
96 Ranger Extended cab - work in progress.. 5.0 out of a 90 Mustang GT..Tremec TKO-3550-2 with mid-shift conversion ..Explorer GT40 intake and fuel rails. X303 FMS cam . WP Jr alum heads . K&N air filter.lowered .Weld Drag Lites (or Weld Pro-Stars) .. a 8.8 with Auburn Pro ..Moser custom alloy street axles (31 spline) and a 3:73 gear.L&L engine mounts and oil filter adapter.Aluminum Rad from James Duff.



Peace from Oxford Miss.
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Re: GOODIES!!!!

Post by cgrey8 »

Thanks for the offer, but I have a spare A9L in the garage. I started the swap off with an A9P. But due to some grounding issues, I had fueling problems. I thought they were possibly due to a bad EEC. So I bought a 2nd one off eBay which turned out to be an A9L. The problem wasn't an EEC, but because of that diagnostic move, I now have a backup.

The A9L, A9P, and A9M are probably the most common of the GUFx EECs. A complete breakdown of the 89-93 Mustang 5.0L (GUFx) EECs is as follows:
  • A9P (GUF1, found on automatics)
  • C3W_____"
  • C3W1____"
  • A9T (GUF1, found on Police/State Patrol Stangs)
  • A9S (GUFA, found on California Stangs)
  • 8LD_____"
  • A9L (GUFB, found on manuals)
  • A9M____"
  • A3M____"
  • A3M1___"
  • A3M2___"
  • X3Z (GUFB, found only on the 93 Cobra)


It's also worth note that when using the TwEECer, you must stick with the strategy of the host EEC. For instance if you have an A9L EEC, you can start with any tune that is based on the GUFB strategy. However if you are tuning with a Moates chip or Moates Quarterhorse, you are no longer locked-in to the host EEC's strategy. As long as the physical hardware is compatible with your tune, the tune will work. Thus you can have a GUF1/A9P EEC and run a GUFB/A9L tune or GUFB/X3Z tune on it if you wanted. One guy found he could tune his 3.8L Tbird SC (GURE) EEC using the QH and an A9L tune. The only thing the GURE EECs have that GUFx doesn't is knock sensor hardware. And by convenience, the GUFB strategy has code to support a knock sensor. The GUFx EECs were just never given the hardware to take advantage of it so the code was turned off and left dormant. That's actually common practice in these older EECs to have unused code just taking up space in the ROM.

It's a bit off topic, but another piece of orphaned code in these old EECs is something known as Managed Fuel Air (MFA) mode. What MFA does is run the engine lean while at cruising conditions in an effort to get better fuel economy. It does this by forcing Open Loop, then based on learned information while at Closed Loop conditions, it reduces the fuel delivery and maintains that condition until some condition disqualifies MFA. Ford never activated it because lean conditions produce "unacceptable" levels of NOx emissions that the CATs can't clean up. So the EPA intervened and prevents these older vehicles from getting the fuel economy they could. But it does save fuel compared to the stock Closed Loop configuration. But people with tuners interested in a little more fuel economy can reactivate that code, configure/tune MFA and possibly get ~1-3 MPG better than stock Closed Loop can do. Another benefit is the lean condition produces nearly no soot...so no sooty black tailpipe tips unless you are at WOT an excessive amount of time. For those that need to pass emissions tests, returning to an emission-passing tune is just a flip-switch away using a dial that connects to the TwEECer/QH.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Chris
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Re: GOODIES!!!!

Post by Chris »

To activate MFA mode and run lean in open loop would you need to open EGR to cool the cylinder and prevent detonation? Therefore if you have no EGR system you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the increased economy?
1990 Ranger 302- E303 cam, Comp Gold RR, GT40 Intake, MSD 6AL, Hooker SuperComp long tubes; 4R70W- shift kit, other internal mods; 8.8" 3.73 Posi-Trac, 31 spline axles.

Early production 1965 Coupe- June 16, 1964, Guardsman Blue, D code 289 4V, T-10 4 Speed-- All original.

1965 Coupe, A code 289, T10 4 Speed, Originally Rangoon Red...Will be again someday-- currently undergoing restoration.
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Re: GOODIES!!!!

Post by glenn201 »

Soul wrote:I basically went this route as I couldn't beat the price for the setup I wanted. By time I got a new dist, intake, TB, and wiring harness they were cheaper or as much for used stuff.

I was hoping I could eventually tune the ecu same as a mustang, glad you know of some ppl doing this alrdy C-Grey. Do they just use a mustang strat/bin whatever or is there something more complicated involved?
so what did this set up cost ?
87 ford ranger 302 4speed
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Re: GOODIES!!!!

Post by cgrey8 »

Chris wrote:To activate MFA mode and run lean in open loop would you need to open EGR to cool the cylinder and prevent detonation? Therefore if you have no EGR system you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the increased economy?
I couldn't say for sure. I run EGR on my setup and I continue to run it while in MFA mode. However one of the things I learned is I had to reduce the EGR flow by about 1/2 to keep the engine from bucking and surging while running lean. I originally expected I'd need to increase EGR flow to hold down the lean-burn high temps, but found that just wasn't possible. Running about 1/2 the EGR flow seems to work just fine though. I'm able to run lean in the 1.10 lambda range. For those unfamiliar, you multiply the lambda value by your fuel's AFR to get the number in AFR-terms. So for 100% gasoline, which is what most people are familiar with, that's up around 15.95:1 (14.64 x 1.09). Now it doesn't run dead-on that. It fluctuates all over or at least the Wideband's feedback fluctuates all over. The range is usually between 1.06-1.12...with occasional spikes as high as 1.20. But once the AFRs go much over 1.15, you begin to feel the leanout and the loss of power. And from all the charts I've been able to find on the Internet, your fuel economy benefits of lean-burn start to reverse around 1.10. So staying near that lambda mix should yield the best possible fuel economy while cruising.

I've been running MFA now for months without any issue. Running lean burns so much more of the fuel that I've been able to wipe the inside of my tailpipes with my finger and the only thing I get on my finger is brown rust from the pipes. The catch is it does put a lot more oxygen into the exhaust which does seem to be rusting the exhaust pipes more. I don't know if it's just age or if it's because of the lean-burn, but the inside of my pipes is pretty scaly & flaked up with rust.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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