2011 GT500 build

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MalcolmV8
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2011 GT500 build

Post by MalcolmV8 »

I recently built this car for a guy. Here's a few pics, figured you guys would enjoy.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1148381645 ... directlink

Mods were extensive. Ported the blower, intake plenum, throttle body, machined down snout of blower and got a 2.4 pulley on there.
JLT carbon fiber 127 mm intake tube.
Kooks long tube headers, off road xpipe, corsa mufflers
Rebuilt tranny with carbon fiber syncros
McLeod twin disk clutch, MGW shifter
Snow Performance water/methanol injection
Zex nitrous with electric bottle opener, pressure regulated heater
J&S Vampire anti-knock
Custom made and matching speedhut gauges
Dynojet wideband
MT ET tires
MISC bs like LED fog lamps, tints on tail lights and side markings (tint not on yet).

Car should be a beast. Tune arrives today and we'll start playing. Had an X3 and tune over nighted from Justin at VMP Tuning.

BTW - I setup his nitrous so he can just flip a couple switches and go. No changing tunes or any BS. It's a wet shot so fuel is covered and the vampire anti-knock box has a feature to pull timing when you spray. How sweet is that. Electric bottle opener too and just arm the system and go. It has a window switch and WOT switch to spray at just the right times. Same nitrous setup as I have on my car (except I also have spray by gear) and he just loved it and had to have it.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

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Chris
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Re: 2011 GT500 build

Post by Chris »

Things gonna be sick!!
1990 Ranger 302- E303 cam, Comp Gold RR, GT40 Intake, MSD 6AL, Hooker SuperComp long tubes; 4R70W- shift kit, other internal mods; 8.8" 3.73 Posi-Trac, 31 spline axles.

Early production 1965 Coupe- June 16, 1964, Guardsman Blue, D code 289 4V, T-10 4 Speed-- All original.

1965 Coupe, A code 289, T10 4 Speed, Originally Rangoon Red...Will be again someday-- currently undergoing restoration.

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MalcolmV8
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Re: 2011 GT500 build

Post by MalcolmV8 »

It's pretty wild. I'd guess 550 + whp is what it feels like while playing on the roads base tuning etc. We got the water/meth dialed in last night and tomorrow morning 8am we have dyno time booked. Time to see what this car really does :)

We ran into an issue with the nitrous so that will have to wait till I can repair it. The problem is the heat from the mufflers is heat soaking the base of the trunk and the nitrous bottle and causing the pressure to rocket to 1200 + PSI before we even turn on the bottle heater. My intention is to run at 1000 PSI so I'll have to insulate the bottom of the trunk to stop that happening.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

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Chris
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 7:37 pm
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Location: Lafayette, La

Re: 2011 GT500 build

Post by Chris »

That is some high pressures. I'd love to see the dyno graph after your run! I've workded on a few GT500s in the last few years. They're fun cars to play with!
1990 Ranger 302- E303 cam, Comp Gold RR, GT40 Intake, MSD 6AL, Hooker SuperComp long tubes; 4R70W- shift kit, other internal mods; 8.8" 3.73 Posi-Trac, 31 spline axles.

Early production 1965 Coupe- June 16, 1964, Guardsman Blue, D code 289 4V, T-10 4 Speed-- All original.

1965 Coupe, A code 289, T10 4 Speed, Originally Rangoon Red...Will be again someday-- currently undergoing restoration.

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MalcolmV8
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Re: 2011 GT500 build

Post by MalcolmV8 »

Well dissapointing results this morning. Car only made about 550 whp and when spraying meth it dropped to around 500. Need to figure out what's going on.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

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cgrey8
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Re: 2011 GT500 build

Post by cgrey8 »

You may need to increase spark advance when spraying. Methanol could easily move your MBT spark advance so you may need more advance to realize the more power. I don't know this...just guessing.

Also are you using pure methanol? You are possibly getting more water sprayed than methanol...particularly if you are using the blue windshield washer fluid. I think the windshield washer fluid with methanol have 40% methanol. The rest is water and detergents. The water serves to cool by absorbing the heat (water absorbs heat to evaporate to a gas) so while the water doesn't add anything to the burn, it does help to control the rate of combustion. Incidentally, I don't seem to be able to get that stuff where I live. I was told people have figured out how to convert methanol to crystal meth and so instead of Robitussin, they use washer fluid to make that crap. So...the formula has changed to not include methanol. :roll: I hope that's not true, but it sounds believable. In the north where freezing temps are more common, I would guess they have to still use methanol or something similar to prevent fluid freeze.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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MalcolmV8
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Re: 2011 GT500 build

Post by MalcolmV8 »

Not sure yet Chris, still scratching my head on this one. All the reports I've seen, TV shows like HP TV, magazine articles etc. all show an increase in HP when spraying meth without touching the tune at all. Then when they add timing they really gain some HP. The ultimate goal for us is to get more timing in the motor which is why we are using water/meth but we were definitely not expecting such a drop when spraying meth.

We used the -20 F blue washer fluid which has methanol and we added a couple bottles of Heet to it which is supposed to make a really good 50/50 mix. We didn't get a chance to mess with timing because Justin from VMP was scheduled to do the tuning for us but he was a no show. So we blew an hour on the dyno playing around waiting on him and he never called or responded to emails or anything. Finally we packed up and left and then he calls us so we have to reschedule at this point.

We also had the thought of perhaps to much water and to little meth and so we added a bunch of bottles of Heet for one last pull and it was better but still a power loss.

1st pull with meth up to 5k rpm- 477hp 530tq

2nd pull with meth up to 6k rpm- 495hp 525tq

3rd pull no meth up to 6k rpm- 544hp 562tq

4th pull with meth (higher concentrate) up to 6300 rpm- 514hp 547tq

I have a call into Snow Performance as well to see if they have any tips or advice. Waiting on a call back from them.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

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MalcolmV8
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Re: 2011 GT500 build

Post by MalcolmV8 »

OK I spoke to Snow Performance and they said the problem is I'm spraying way to much. We are using dual 625 ml or 10 GPH nozzles and they said that's good for 1000 whp. They said at my HP levels of 550 ~ 600 wheel I should only be using a single jet. So we will change that and try again.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

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cgrey8
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Re: 2011 GT500 build

Post by cgrey8 »

Do you have a Wideband installed? If so, what was the lambda (or AFR) reading?
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

Admin of EECtuning.org

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MalcolmV8
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Re: 2011 GT500 build

Post by MalcolmV8 »

Actually the car has three widebands. Two factory (one in each pipe) and a third dynojet wideband2 we installed for a gauge and datalogging purposes although I believe we can log the A/F of the factory widebands too.

We have it around 11.5 A/F. Interesting enough under WOT the car is still in closed loop because of the factory widebands and when meth sprays the ECC pulls fuel to keep it at 11.5. Neat stuff. Not like 99% of the cars that go open loop at WOT.

I've been chatting to another guy who's successfully running dual 14 gallon/minute nozzles on his GT500 running straight meth and have decided I don't like his setup. He gave me a lot of advice in the beginning and steered me towards the dual nozzle setup I was running.

See my dual 625 ml/min (or 10 gallon/min) nozzles were spraying way to much water/meth mix into the car. After reviewing the dyno graphs you can see the meth pulls were very jittery showing the spark was getting blown out and combustion was not consistent or complete. It was not enough that you could feel it on the street seat of the pants but the dyno graph sure showed it up.

What this other fellow is doing is running straight meth and essentially using the meth system as a third fuel pump. His factory dual pumps and injectors can't keep up with his 700 + whp on his 2007 GT 500. So if his meth system ever fails under WOT he'll go lean and probably pop the motor. He installed a flow switch in the meth line hooked up to an LED and it lights up by his gauges under WOT. If he sees that LED go out he'll let out of it and hopefully save his motor? can he do that quick enough? who knows. also what if you miss that? Seems like a shady setup to me.

Snow Performance's approach is a little different in that they want me to use a single nozzle and not be a third fuel pump. Spray 50/50 mix and essentially cool the intake charge and up octane rating is all. They said when spraying the right amount I should not see any whp loss over straight fuel and not spraying. Then at that point I can add timing and get the gains of the system. Also if that setup fails the only thing that happens is I loose octane which would normally make the motor knock but we have a J&S Vampire installed which will pull timing and just cut back HP a little and not blow things up.

Maybe next Friday we can get back to the dyno and do some more playing around and see what we figure out.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

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Dave
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Re: 2011 GT500 build

Post by Dave »

I've been watching and following, wating for some results. What you reported doesn't sound good. Last month I had my 4.6 with the forged bottom and the 2300 TVS (stock heads, exhaust manifolds and cams) dyno'd and had 503 rwhp. Only running 15 lbs boost and the really mild Roush tune. You put a lot of good go fast stuff one that motor. Good luck in finding the problem.
Dave
'66'Ranchero 302/5 speed
2015 Stage 3 Roush - rated at 670 hp
2000 Ext Cab/4 door swap project
2000 Ext Cab/4 door, Summer beater
2000 Ext Cab/4 door, Winter beater
1969 Fairlane Cobra in Barn, just waiting

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cgrey8
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Re: 2011 GT500 build

Post by cgrey8 »

A tuner friend of mine up in NY has done some extensive testing with the full-time Closed Loop Mustangs with the stock WBs. He's found that the stock WBs are located too close to the intake manifolds. Being that close makes them more responsive (less delay) but overheats them. So when running WOT, they get hotter than they should and don't report the right AFR to the EEC. He's found that they start reporting richer than actual. So they say 11s, but his WB that's downstream of them, but before the CATs is reporting 12s and they don't do this immediately. It happens when they get hot (about 1 second after WOT). That's just something you have to be aware of when tuning them particularly when tuning heavily boosted versions or you'll unintentionally run them leaner than they should be for the load they are under.

The one thing I wasn't aware of is just where downstream an auxiliary WB could be put. I thought the newer Mustangs had their CATs mounted right up there near the manifolds with little room for a single sensor, well alone a 2nd. But what I'm remembering may be pics of the new 5.0Ls. Although I thought I remembered him saying the new 5.0s have the same characterisic.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

Admin of EECtuning.org

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MalcolmV8
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Re: 2011 GT500 build

Post by MalcolmV8 »

Dave wrote:I've been watching and following, wating for some results. What you reported doesn't sound good. Last month I had my 4.6 with the forged bottom and the 2300 TVS (stock heads, exhaust manifolds and cams) dyno'd and had 503 rwhp. Only running 15 lbs boost and the really mild Roush tune. You put a lot of good go fast stuff one that motor. Good luck in finding the problem.
Dave
Dave your car sounds fun. He's also only running 15 lbs peak right now. While we may have opened up the breathing of this car a lot the biggest bottle neck he has right now is that factory eaton. I tried talking him into a TVS as it would have made MUCH more power but he said it was to expensive but then all said and done later he could have purchased about 3 of them lol. Non the less he's very happy with the car and was after that screaming blower sound you typically get from a ported and pulley'd blower. His Eaton doesn't scream nearly like the ported/pulley'd 03 Cobra eatons did but it's still there a little. The other thing holding him back from a whipple or TVS is he plans on going twin turbo either next summer or the following.
Once we get the meth and his tune dialed in hopefully he'll be closer to 600 rwhp. He's hoping for 800 on spray but I'm trying to keep him from spraying so much. Even though it wouldn't be my fault I feel like he'll see it that way if his motor blows up. Nitrous can be very hard on motors and he'd be better off waiting for his whipple or twin turbos. I jetted his car for 125 shot and hopefully he leaves it that way :)
cgrey8 wrote:A tuner friend of mine up in NY has done some extensive testing with the full-time Closed Loop Mustangs with the stock WBs. He's found that the stock WBs are located too close to the intake manifolds. Being that close makes them more responsive (less delay) but overheats them. So when running WOT, they get hotter than they should and don't report the right AFR to the EEC. He's found that they start reporting richer than actual. So they say 11s, but his WB that's downstream of them, but before the CATs is reporting 12s and they don't do this immediately. It happens when they get hot (about 1 second after WOT). That's just something you have to be aware of when tuning them particularly when tuning heavily boosted versions or you'll unintentionally run them leaner than they should be for the load they are under.
That's very interesting. I've been doing a lot of reading in widebands lately too and I've also read about how exhaust pressure plays a big roll in it too. Apparently a lot of high end widebands include a pressure sensor too so they can compensate for that off reading. Even some more affordable units such as zeitronix have an optional pressure sensor you can get.

As for this guys GT500 he has long tubes on the car and they're very long compare to the stock manifolds (see pic below) so hopefully if there is truly a heat problem that won't be affecting him. Also the dynojet wideband we installed is further back in the X pipe. I actually tried talking him into returning his dynojet wideband2 and getting a Zeitronix as I've read so many good things about them and really wanted to get some hands on with one but he said it was to much effort finding his receipt and dealing with returning the old one etc. lol

Image
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

User avatar
cgrey8
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:23 pm
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Re: 2011 GT500 build

Post by cgrey8 »

Impressive.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

Admin of EECtuning.org

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