Had my truck in a shop today... looking good

[MalcolmV8]

I took my truck into a performance shop today. The initial plan was to run it on the dyno and custom tune it and burn a chip.

However after the first day of messing with it they said they have it running almost perfect and they don't think I'm going to need a custom chip. They said they had to mess with the vacuum lines. I don't have details yet but they said it's made a big difference.

My next big issue with the code 22 map / baro sensor. They said it looks like there's some sort of ground fault with one of the sensor wires. They are still tracing it and trying to figure it out. They are keeping it over night and should hopefully finish with it tomorrow. The seem pretty confident this will fix the rest of the driveability issues.

Got my fingers crossed

Later
Malcolm

[stranger]

let us know how it turns out,and details of what they found.always good to have a second set of eyes looking at things

[MalcolmV8]

Well I went down to take it for a test drive on my lunch break. It's definitely got a lot more get up and go. I mean it seems to really move now. So far what they've done is changed the vacuum line from the throttle body that went to the top of the valve covers. Instead they have it run from the throttle body to the canister purge solenoid. The top of the valve covers got hooked to a vaccum source, which doesn't make any sense to me. Now you have the vacuum pulling on both the valve covers and PCV? I called them back after I got to thinking about that and asked again and he says no that's right. Hummm....

Anyhow they are still fighting a few codes. They thought they had the EGR codes fixed but they keep coming back and the code 22 is still baffeling them. At least I don't feel so dumb now on the code 22. They said they could burn a custom chip and get rid of the EGR and thermactor air bypass codes but they need to fix that 22 properly so the truck will run right.

Just as some interesting side info: they said to make a dyno pull and see how strong the truck's running costs $75. Didn't sound to bad to me. They said a package deal of dyno tuning for performance and the custom chip would be $425.

Later
Malcolm

[cgrey8]

I'm with you, I'd like to know what the thought is behind the odd vacuum runs. See if they'll give you any amount of logical explaination as to how that benefits.

So now with all that extra getup-n-go, how is traction?

Chris

[MalcolmV8]

So now with all that extra getup-n-go, how is traction?

I was carefull in first and second because I know better and the shop warned me from their test drive to be careful in the first two gears. I guess it scared them a little. As long as you don't just nail it, it's actually not to bad but I will definately be looking into some sort of traction bars and if that's not good enough some Nitto drag radials.

They did say my truck's running very good so far. I got tons of compliments on how clean everything was which made me feel better about the truck. They said it's the cleanest looking v8 truck they've ever seen.

[MalcolmV8]

Got some more info from the shop. They say the code 22 is caused because the cam / rocker combo is radical enough its messing with the vacuum. So they say the sensor is truly sending back a signal to the ECC that's out of range.

So the fix is to burn a custom chip that changes what acceptable readings from the MAP/BARO sensor is. At the same time they are also going to turn off the other codes, egr etc.

They want me to come down tomorrow before the burn / dyno run and go through all the specs on how I want the chip burnt and then they will proceed from there.

Hummm... I hope this is not just a band aid. I mean there are tons of guys out there running E303 cams with out code 22 problems. Even searching the web for code 22 issues doesn't seem to bring up much. Seems like it's not a common problem. I guess if the dyno run goes good and the motors putting down good power I won't worry about it.

Also anyone have any idea on the vacuum? Why would both the PCV and valve covers be hooked up to vacuum? On my factory V6 (94 ranger) the valve covers pull air from just behind the air filter. Not vacuum behind the throttle body. I asked them again. They said when I come down tomorrow I can talk to their main tech guy who I guess has been turning wrenches for over 30 years. They said he can explain the vacuum situation better for me.

Thanks guys
Malcolm

[stranger]

the e cam does give a low vac on a 302,most build it with 2 deg retard,to move lca to 112 from 110.for stronger vac on a 302.a stroker wouldn't need the retard,and a 351 would love advance to 108 lca.i plugged my t body vac.and teeed my v/c in to pvc line also,since its a closed crankcase system.be carefull,yes a custom chip is nice,but i spent more on chips than i care to think about.any mods mean a new chip.and another 400 bucks or so.think of a tweecer,or pro racer package.so you can reburn and change settings yourself.much cheaper in the long run.i tried the tweecer,but it doesn't work with explorer pcm.however the stang pcm's it works fine.i have a new one,you can borrow to try it first too see if you like it.i currently use the superchips proracer package.the thing about it is it works with all ford pcm's.shutting off the egr is a click away.just get a dyno pull for a baseline.and do research before you buy a chip.you should be able to fool an ecc iv pcm.into no egr easy,ask arround first

[stranger]

double post ,sorry,took to long to type

[cgrey8]

It sounds like you got yourself a great flowing combination of components for it to be backing aspirated air into the intake thus throwing your vacuum readings off. That must mean you got one heck of a high RPM ceiling. It'll be curious to see how the dyno results turn out.

If you want to "tinker" you can try this before buring the chip. One of the things we do in HVAC pneumatics is add a mass accumulator to pneumatic pressure and vacuum lines to smooth out radical pressure differentials. In more literal terms, a mass accumulator is a block of air used to smooth out fast, short-lived pressure changes. We made our accumulators out of PVC pipe caps. I think ones we have are 3" std PVC caps with just enough 3" PVC pipe in the middle to make the caps butt up against eachother (glued together using the PVC cement). We attach the pressure sensor to a fitting drilled into one cap, and the vacuum/pressure line to the other end where we have another drilled hole and fitting. If you are getting spikes of pressure and vacuum due to a radical cam, this would certainly smooth it out.

Unfortunately, everything has a downside. The downside is that your readings will be slightly delayed due to the accumulation and restriction that the accumulator has added between the manifold and the sensor in order to do an effective "smoothing" of the vacuum reading. The good news is the computer may be able to work through that using the TPS. You wouldn't want to get too restrictive of a fitting on the vacuum side, but restrictive enough that you properly absorb the vacuum "noise" caused by the cam.

Personally, I'd be kinda curious to see if that works, however my suspicion is that the techs that have tuned your engine so nicely would be way better suited to advise/indicate whether this would work. I can't believe it's never been done before but who knows...there's probably a reason why they don't use it. Again, just a rambling thought for what it's worth.

Incidentally, my 89 Ranger has a mass accumulator mounted on the AC box. It's a 2" diameter round cylindrical looking piece of plastic. It's got vacuum lines running to it. The engine is it's vacuum source and to maintain a vacuum, it has a checkvalve so it doesn't discharge it's vacuum. It's only purpose in life is to offer a strong vacuum for the pneumatic actuators on the truck even when the engine isn't at a high vacuum condition.

Chris

[MalcolmV8]

Ahh so hooking the valve cover breather into the PCV line is refered to as a closed system. I take this is common practise? Does that have any adverse affects?

Humm you bring up a very good point on the chip. I'd be spending $350 on the chip where as for $550 I can get the tweecer package.

Will I be able to adjust the paramaters of the MAP/BARO sensor with the tweecer? Having used one yourself, how hard is it to use?

Thanks
Malcolm

[stranger]

do a tweecer search,there are a couple of fourms.its small and grass routes.but the product is top notch.you can adjust too many parameters to mention.i got to play with the software.simular to sct but more crytpic.since it didn't work on mine its still collecting dust.

[MalcolmV8]

Just wanted to report back my truck's looking good. Turns out we had to pull the vacuum hose off the MAP/BARO sensor for it to work correctly in a mass air setup. Damn so simple yet I had it messed up. Only in a speed density vehicle do you hook up the vacuum hose. Anyhow no more check engine light. They said the truck is running hot dog right now. I told them to go ahead with the custom chip right now since they have all the knowledge and experience in this area. I downloaded the tweecer software and all I can say is wow. There are so many parameters etc. I wouldn't know where to start. I figure I'll use their chip as a starting point and then down the line when I'm ready for it I'll get the tweecer and use their chip settings as a base line.
They said they have timed the fuel injectors to be in sync with the valves since my cam threw it off from factory settings. They are still tweaking it right now and said I should be able to pick it up tomorrow. Can't wait. This is very exciting for me.

Thanks guys
Malcolm

[MalcolmV8]

Turns out we had to pull the vacuum hose off the MAP/BARO sensor for it to work correctly in a mass air setup.

Oh and I forgot to mention. I found that out while searching the net. I called the shop and asked them to pull the hose and see what it does. I get a phone call later saying yup that worked Hopefully they go easy on my bill since I solved the haunting code 22 before they did.

later
Malcolm

[plowboy34]

Hey Malcolm, I may be talking out of ignorance here cause I have never dealt with injection on a real high performance level before. Only reason I'm saying anything is I had a very long conversation with a guy one time who ran the MAF injection on his swap. He seemed like he knew what he was talking about, you know, you can usually tell who the idiots are from the ones who know. He had dyno test results that he was putting out around 600 ponies and he said he never changed the puter at all. He claims the stock puter will handle everything up to about 650 ponies very well. Again I am no expert but he did seem like he knew what he was talking about. I just thought maybe you could save a few $$$$. Just thought I would give you something else to think about....like you need that hey....lol.

I hope you get to get out and enjoy that truck real soon, I believe you gonna have a blast dude. I did notice you are from KC area yesterday, I am in SE corner of Missouri. Maybe some day I be in that area and check your ride out personally. I would really like to see that thing, cleanest looking job I have ever seen....you should be very proud, I know I would be. Again get out and enjoy that thing, they are a blast.

Plowboy

[MalcolmV8]

Thanks plowboy. I picked up the truck today. Runs awesome. No codes and no check engine light. The only thing I don't like is they are pulling a vacuum on the valve covers and the pcv. So the block is just a huge vacuum reservoir. It must be sucking way to hard too because I can hear a high pitch squeeling sound sometimes at idle and a little above which I thought might be the belt slipping. After checking around on the net I read that it can be air getting sucked by the main seals and it will eventually damaged the seals. I increased the tension on the belt and nothing changed. So I pulled the one hose off the valve cover real quick and swapped it with the canister purge hose which goes to the connector on the throttle body. Noise was immediately gone. I'm going to fix this next week properly by welding in a tube on the intake pipe after the mass air to supply air to the valve covers.
Also since the block was one giant vacuum reservoir I noticed for a few seconds after shutting down the engine you could hear this loud air rushing sound as it sucked air back in. The shop says that's how they like to run the vacuum. To each his own I guess, but I'm changing it back.

As for the computer been able to handle 650hp, well I'm sure it can. But why not get the most out of your hardware by tuning the computer to match it? I don't know a whole lot indepth about EFI myself but I can tell a big difference in the way my truck runs now.

Later
Malcolm