Opinions and guidance wise ones lol

[Soul]

one last question, If I buy an aftermarket intake (looking at the bbk ssi 5002 on summit) and use a 90 mustang harness and comp, will this support my current hp numbers? Also what injectors would I need to get, all my v8 cars were robbed of their injectors in the junk. I appreciate all the help and patience, I like to be sure of something before I embark on anything major.

[cgrey8]

If you are trying to hit max HP goals with an NA setup, then the intake and cam both will need to be ditched.

But keep in mind, you've got a 331 with a very civilized cam capable of daily driving...and the simulator already has you above a 1:1 CID to HP ratio which is pretty impressive for any pushrod street engine.

If you plan to boost this engine, then stick with exactly what you have. The cam you have is quite capable of a stable, steady idle, OK off-idle performance in NA form, and is an ideal cam for a mildly boosted application as well. With the cam installed 4° retarded, the engine will be a great platform for centrifugal making 5-6 PSI. With a screw and innercooler, you could hit 10 PSI....maybe. But without high octane racing gas, I'm not sure how much higher you could get it than that. You ARE at mid 9s for compression on a pushrod engine. This ain't a mod motor.

Boosted setups are FAR less sensitive to intake and cam undersizing since a booster is shoving air into the engine vs having the air coerced in using only atmospheric pressure. In fact, putting a blower on an engine with a "big" cam tends to just waste fuel at lower RPMs. The heavy overlap of a big cam winds up being a direct-to-the-exhaust escape hatch for the blower's pressure. At lower RPMs, you literally push compressed air & fuel you spent HP/fuel compressing and $ buying right out into the exhaust never getting the benefit of either. Although on strip-only applications that overlap is appreciated at 4500+RPMs. But for street engines that'll never see above 6500 RPMs, I would never recommend a "big" cam for boosted applications. There's far more downsides than upsides.

[Soul]

I'm looking for max I can get out of this combo and maintain street drivability. Future plans are blower and suspension over haul. I'm going to be going to an ad in the future just pulling parts together. I'll look into retarding the cam, think my timing set had an option for 4 advanced and retard.

[cgrey8]

What specifically are your goals and plans for the engine both now and in the future? State them so we don't have to assume and guess.

Most OK roller timing sets have the ability to adjust the cam +3° (advanced), neutral, or -3° (retarded) thus only 3 positions to choose from.

The nicer setups allow you to adjust from -8° to 8° in 2° increments (9 positions total). If you have a timing gear setup instead of a timing chain, usually those have a similar granularity in configuration.

[Soul]

ooppsss 58cc heads

[cgrey8]

Yeah, that just pushed you over 8.5 DCR to somewhere close to 8.6DCR. That's pushing things even with premium fuel. You'll want to retard the cam 4° just to get the DCR down into a safe range for premium pump gas. Without an EGR to help keep detonation down, you pretty much will not be able to run regular 87 octane. And your chances for boost are severely limited unless you run E85 or race gas.

With the cam retarded 4°, you have a DCR in the 8.3:1 range which is what I'm aiming for. But this is still based on assumptions I'm making about your head gasket thickness and piston deck clearance.

[Soul]

but my HP just went up , so far on premium gas and flatfooted no det. Running 10 advanced on timing. Piston to valve clearance was two hundredth thousands I believe.

[cgrey8]

Yes the higher compression did send your max power higher assuming you can produce that power without detonation. With an 8.6DCR, that might be a problem. You may sacrifice more power having to retard the timing to stop detonation than you increased by having a high compression. So instead, retard the cam to reduce the DCR so you can maintain the spark timing. And because the cam events are retarded, you actually pickup HP the cam wasn't giving you at higher RPMs.

Piston-to-valve clearance and piston deck clearance are two different numbers. Minimum Piston-to-Valve clearance is not necessarily a measure at TDC. It's measured at whatever piston height the piston and valve are closest to each other, and that is almost never at TDC. Piston deck clearance is the distance the piston is below the block deck surface@TDC. In the case of pistons that are popped out above the deck surface (the way my engine will be setup), that is referred to as negative deck clearance.

[Chris]

one last question, If I buy an aftermarket intake (looking at the bbk ssi 5002 on summit) and use a 90 mustang harness and comp, will this support my current hp numbers? Also what injectors would I need to get, all my v8 cars were robbed of their injectors in the junk. I appreciate all the help and patience, I like to be sure of something before I embark on anything major.

I don't know if your engine placement is different than mine, but I tried the SSI intake. I had some serious clearance issues with the firewall and A/C box.

[Soul]

Unfortunatly mine is in a tbird instead of ranger, ran out of funds and used leftover parts to finish. Power goals are a road race type car maybe daily driven. I put up with alot so my daily driver and most others may be different, right now I'm driving it full manual VB and no radio

btw got any more pics of that motor, it looks good...

[cgrey8]

Oh you asked about injectors. 30-36lb injectors will support your power range as a naturally aspirated setup without too much trouble. Although if you are buying new AND you are getting the EEC tuned, then instead get the Siemens Deka 60s (more on them later).

When I was looking for used new generation EV6 (skinny) injectors, I setup a search on eBay and looked for well over a year for the deal I wanted. I started out looking for a deal on a set of stock 39lb Cobra (dark blue) injectors. There was always someone selling a set of these on eBay, but they were all going for over what I wanted to pay. Occasionally a set of 36lb or 30lb injectors came around, but the vast majority of what was out there in the sizes I needed were those 39lb Cobras. My goal was to win a set of those for $100 shipped. That never happened but it was a blessing in disguise for multiple reasons. I eventually came across a set of 36lb injectors for $80 shipped. There were 10, instead of 8 in the auction which I thought was odd. So in suspicion that I might have gotten a bad set or a hodge-podge mix-n-match, I took them to Fuel Injector Connection here in Atlanta which is just a guy and his dad that rebuild injectors out of a shop in the back of the guy's house. He flowed them and all 10 were dead-on spec. He said if he were selling them, he would list them as "flow-matched".

I told him about my attempts to get the Cobra 39s and that's when he told me to be glad I hadn't. Here's why:
EECTuning.org - Tech Docs > Don't use Ford Cobra 39lb Injectors on single valve engines

The other thing that made that set such a good deal for me is these 36s have the older EV1 style connector on them which is what my wiring harness has. The Cobra 39s have the newer USCAR style connector which would've forced me to either buy adapters or install those USCAR connectors onto my wiring harness. So that's something to look out for and be aware of when you buy injectors too.

Now the difference between what I was doing and most people is I had time to wait around for a deal. Most people need to get moving on their projects and will buy what they have to even if that means paying more for used stuff than they want or buying new. If you buy new, then buy for the future but buy quality. The new Siemens Deka 60lb injectors are said to be REALLY nice flowing injectors with superior flow control all the way down to low RPM/Load conditions...where older EV1 style "fat" injectors had a hard time maintaining any consistency or accuracy in fuel control. These Dekas are what a lot of factories are using in their big HP supercharged builds to get both the fuel delivery required and smooth stock-like low RPM idle of a stock factory car. In fact, they have a set of 80lb Dekas that are also garnering some impressive feedback from those using them. While the word on the EECTuning.org site used to be never grossly oversize your injectors. With the new technology in injectors, that's tending to change and people are defaulting to those 60lb Dekas regardless of their build so if they decide to go boosted later or rebuild for boost, they don't have to repurchase injectors.

Now since we are on the subject of changing injectors, its only worth mentioning the MAF. The MAF needs to be properly sized to the engine's capabilities just like the Injectors do. But do they have to be calibrated? The answer is NO if you are getting the EEC tuned or plan to tune it yourself. Here's the details relating to that:
EECTuning.org - FAQs > Is having a MAF calibrated to your size Injectors important?

And if you are curious whether EEC tuning is for you, this is the thread I'd point you to:
EECTuning.org - FAQs > Things to know BEFORE buying a TwEECer or Quarterhorse

[MalcolmV8]

And if you are curious whether EEC tuning is for you, this is the thread I'd point you to:
EECTuning.org - FAQs > Things to know BEFORE buying a TwEECer or Quarterhorse

I found that link and some other links it pointed to very informative. Now I know you have a Tweecer RT but after reading that I have to ask do you have a Quarterhorse too?

Also I wanted to ask since you're on the tuning forums so much are there any options to tune newer ECCs such as the one in my 03 Cobra? I know my tuner uses some SCT software that works with my SCT hand held but I was wondering if there's a version of the software that is available to the average joe like myself that doesn't cost thousands and thousands.

[cgrey8]

Yes, I have both. I started off with a TwEECer, and migrated over to the Quarterhorse when it was being beta tested. I was one of the few people asked to do beta testing and I gladly volunteered time to it given the additional features the QH has over the TwEECer. I still keep the TwEECer around, but the vast majority of what I do with it is write encrypted CalEdit tunes to the TwEECer, then read them back out of the TwEECer using BinaryEditor which reads and saves tunes it uploads in an unencrypted form. Often someone will be having a problem with a CalEdit written tune. And the BIN hackers will know they can figure it out, but don't have access to the unencrypted code with CalEdit tunes. But since most of the BIN hackers don't have a TwEECer nor do they want to purchase one, they send the file to me, I "convert" their enrcypted file by doing the write/read procedure using my TwEECer hardware. And then send them back the unencrypted version of the tune. That's been the majority of the TwEECer's use since I got my QH.

As for your vehicle, I think 2003 is about the last year you can use TwEECer/QH devices. After that, the EECs migrated away from Intel processors in favor of higher clocked PowerPC processors which means the Edge connector was ditched. The early migrations were code-named Spanish Oak EECs I believe. But as long as your EEC has the edge connector and is still Intel Based, then the QH will work. With the QH, you can upload that SCT tune out of the EEC and begin tweaking away at that tune as a starting point. The catch is you'll need BinaryEditor & a def file for your EEC's strategy (also purchasable from EECTuning.org forum user POPSRACING), along with a QH. If you don't have a Wideband, I would NOT recommend you try messing with a tune without one. So at a minimum, plan on purchasing:

1. BinaryEditor/EEC Analyzer suite ($130-150)
2. License for your def file (~$200)
3. Moates QH ($250-300 depending on if they are on sale or not)
4. Innovate LC-1 Wideband with sensor kit ($150-200 from eBay). Kits also including the AFR gauge to go in the dash are only a little more.

[MalcolmV8]

I don't know if I have the intel processor or not. I'd have to do some research on that. I was hoping the newer ECCs would have something a little more user friendly for tuning but maybe not.

I have a wide band and currently do data logging for my tuner. I used to use the LC-1 but was not a fan. The programmed output would sometimes loose its program and I'd have to re-connect with the laptop and fix that. Also it requires a serial port which nobody uses any more so you have to get a serial to usb adapter. But probably the worse thing I hated was you have to remove the O2 sensor from the exhaust and do a free air calibration which also required extra hook ups in the car such as the calibration button and LED. I eventually tossed it and got a dynojet wideband 2 which has none of those issues.

I probably won't start tuning on my 03 Cobra anytime soon. To much money to be lost if I screw that tune up However I'm learning on the turbo honda project I'm working on and maybe one day when I'm a lot more confident on tuning I'll look at doing the Cobra.

[cgrey8]

What did you do with the LC-1? I'm looking at buying a 2nd one for my other bank. And while I did install the calibration button, I haven't had any issues with it loosing its programming or having to frequently air-calibrate it. They say to air-calibrate every 3 months, but it's been in the pipe for well over 9 months and its behaving just fine and following my datalogs pretty well. When I do the calibration, there's an easier way to do it than pressing buttons. Simply unplug the sensor from the LC-1, turn the ignition ON. Turn ignition OFF and reconnect. That redoes the heater calibration and immediately follows it up with an open-air calibration. That avoids the need for the button.

If you still have the LC-1 & sensor, I'd be glad to take it off your hands. What would you want for it (and the bung you didn't use from the Dynojet)?