need a new cam

[v8ranger]

If you need a 302 crank, I got one sitting on the floor of my garage that will likely never be used in any of my engines since I am replacing it for a stroker. If you haven't already bought a crank, this one looks pretty good. I can get you pics if you want/need.

Thank you, but I have one coming. I got one coming from auto zone. Its a reman with all the bearing. They gave it to me for $110. I have an account with them so they gave me a great price on it. It was going to coast me close to that just for bearings so sence there was some fine scratches in the crank I figure I better change that too while I had it apart. There was a nick in the one rod jurnal and it left a pretty good line around the bearing. I think that nick was in it when I got the engine. I smoothed it out and figured it would be ok. Its never given me any problems, but I dont want to do this again, so I might as well bight the bullit and change it now. The credit card needed some swipping anyway I guess.... lol...

[cgrey8]

$110 for crank and bearings? That's not bad at all. I expect I'd have spent nearly 1/2 that much just shipping this one.

[cgrey8]

So, any more questions on cams? I could talk about this stuff as long as there are people to ask the questions. When someone hits on something I don't know, that forces me to go research it myself so I get it right in my head.

The thing I still don't fully understand is why LSA seems to center in the 110-114 range for street vehicles. I understand the open/close event necessities and the benefits of lift. What I don't quite get is why it just happens that the optimal lobe separation is in this range regardless of whether the cam is conservative or aggressive. And I can't find an explanation for why...only declarations of that fact. So, I can't answer that.

[v8ranger]

I always thought that the 112 would lope less than a 114. I always thought that number dictated how the cam made the engine idle. The higher that number the more loppy the idle. But like I said, I don't know jack spit about numbers on cams. I know what the lift number is, and that's it. After that, its all greek to me. I know I want more lift, and I want more lope in my idle than what the E-303 put out. If I only end up with about the same idle with the stage 1 cam, then that's ok, its not a deal killer. Its a more affordable cam for me. I just don't want a "good"/ "smooth" idle. Putting a smooth idle cam in a street rod is like putting a stick shift in a Lincoln town car. Its just not right... lol...

[v8ranger]

Here are a couple pics of the crank. This is why I am replacing it. Now mind you, there was nothing wrong with the bearings. The engine had great oil pressure and didnt knock. But to avoid a dissaster, I am replacing the crank now while I have it apart. Then after looking at the engine, it looks like I had a head gasket leaking a little to. I'm afrade to pull a piston, lol....

[cgrey8]

Larger Duration = More Lope
Smaller/Tighter LSA = More Lope

Given that, a cam with 112 is going to have more lope than a cam with 114. Since the TFS Stage 1 has more LSA than the E303, a built-in 4° advance, and less off-the-seat duration (albeit more duration @.050"), my guess is that the TFS S1 isn't going to be as lopey as the E303. But I could be wrong. Just to give another example, the Explorer cam has an LSA of 115! It's the exact opposite of a lopey cam.

If you want more lope AND more lift, then the XE274HR-12 is what you are asking for. But you will have to swap the 1.7s for 1.6s AND possibly your spring package if your springs can't handle that kind of lift. This cam has .556/.566" lift with 1.6s which is more than either the E303 or TFS S1 with the 1.7s!! And it has more than plenty of duration to give you more lope even with an LSA of 112. As mentioned above, this cam is really meant for aftermarket heads on a 351w or a stroked 302. So don't expect an increase in off-idle torque with this cam on your 302. However if the engine can hold together, this cam on a 302 is probably good for 7000 RPMs. Just keep in mind that if you run this cam on a stock bottom end, GT40 cast iron heads, a torque-oriented intake (I don't know what your intake is designed for), and a small-tube exhaust (don't know what your exhaust actually is), you are mismatching components. The engine will not be optimized. But some people are not after optimized perfection in engine engineering. They are willing to sacrifice some performance (and fuel economy) for sound. If that's you, then this is your cam. If you do have to replace the springs and rockers, it'll come with a far heftier price tag than just a TFS S1. One thing it would likely let you do is throw a smaller pulley on the charger to eek out probably 8 PSI.


I see what you mean about pitting in the crank. While it looks minor enough to machine out, if you can buy cranks and bearings for so cheap, why bother? Throw a new crank at it and be done with it.

But yeah, it looks like you might do well to pull the heads. If anything, it'll give you a chance to cc them, put a thinner gasket on, get your actual piston deck height, and check out the cylinder walls just to make sure they aren't galled up. If they are, you probably were detonating a bit with boost and thus have some seized and/or cracked rings too. Tightening up the quench will help with the lower RPM detonation, but will boost your compression a bit. Boosted compression may or may not be what you want with a supercharger. However if the walls are galled, you may be looking at boring and re-slugging the new crank anyway. If you do, that's a perfect chance to get a set of slugs that are taylored to what your intentions for the engine are. If this is an engine you plan on keeping a long time, it might be worth the investment. Then again, if this is just a toy truck, not a daily driver, you also need to ask yourself if it is worth that...particularly given gas has a good chance of hitting $5/gal in the next few years between rising oil prices and gov't taxing.

See this is how you get sucked down the rabbit hole!

[carvinmark]

Isn't it amazing what you find when you tear them down? That crank looks like it didn't have much more time before you would have had bearing probs and the head gasket is obvious. I would want to check the pistons and rings while you are there. Just sucks the old wallet empty

[v8ranger]

That makes more sence to me know about the lsa now....
I don't believe I was "detonating"... At least I don't think so. I never had and problems with pinging. I always ran the highest octane ( 93 ) I use to be able to get 94 at Sunoco, but now they only offer 93. Gas mileage is not important to me. I only put about 2 or 3,000 miles a year on it. Its just a nice sunny day driver, for a tool around town. I don't take it on trips, that's what the wife's car is for, lol.. I will probably stick with the stage 1 cam just to be safe. I want to upgrade from the E-303, but don't want to loose any torque or take a chance in ruining something else. With the super charger, I never have that problem, but like I said, I don't want to take a chance and cause problems in the engine just to have lots of lope. It would be cool to have more than what the E cam gives, but if I end up with the same, well that's ok to... Those groves in the main journal where in the oil valley of the bearing, so it didn't leave any marks in the bearing. Just the one rod bearing had some pretty good groves in it. For the price they gave me on the crank kit, I couldn't go wrong. I didn't have the cash for that repair, so out came the credit card... lol.... Oh well... Best to do it right now than be sorry later...

[cgrey8]

I honestly don't think you'll be disappointed with the TFS S1.

Most people that run an E303 are happy with the performance they give. But they are almost always happier after they replace it. I used to hate the E303 for being such a poor cam when compared to more-targeted aftermarket cams. But then I stepped back and saw the beauty in the E303's versatility and got a new found respect for the E303. It can be used as a slap-in budget upgrade from a stock cam while reusing all of the stock valve train. It can also be a decent-enough performer on moderately modified engines when used in conjunction with 1.7 RRs. For people upgrading from a stock engine that don't know what they want/need in a cam, it is hard to go wrong with an E303. And it can do all that while being CARB certified to pass California emissions. That's a lot to ask of a single cam which explains why the E303 is so popular.

On the other hand, it is not hard to do better than an E303 when you do know what you want. Whether it be more performance or better off-idle torque, there are cams more suited to these needs out there, each with their own set of prerequisites which may be pros or cons, depending on the intention of a person's build, and their budget.

[Dave]

I know about five years ago I sent Chris a very good explaination of HP vs torque and how they relate. Kept them in a pdf but can't add them here. It explains how the LSA and overlap affect the idle and range of power production.
Dave

[cgrey8]

I've still got that email as well as all those PDFs you sent. There's 14 PDFs although opening them they appear to be "scanned" images from a magazine. So it might be best to just distribute these upon request instead of posting them since there might be Copyright infringements associated with them.

I'll have to reread that article myself, if anything just to reaffirm the concepts I think I know. If anybody wants these, I can forward them on. But your email will need to be capable of accepting attachments over 2.5MB in size. If you do email me, put as the subject line HP vs Torque, so if it does get caught by the spam filter, I can easily recognize it amongst the vast number of Travel Deals, male stamina enhancement drugs, and health care advertisements the catcher filters out for me.

[Dave]

Chris,
They were indeed scanned in from some magazine. Thought I had sent them in a zip file that is less than 2MB. Just noticed that we have both been on here for over six years now. You've come a long way!
Dave

[cgrey8]

It's been a learning experience. That's for sure. But I've enjoyed every minute of it. Even the annoying and trying times were learning opportunities.

BTW, it's probably been longer than that. Remember Malcolm had the email-based forum before this phpBB forum got setup. I can't remember how many months I communicated with you guys via that board format.

[v8ranger]

Ok, when installing the cam bearing's, the box says, position 1,2,ect.... for each part number on the bearing. Is position one the front bearing, or the back bearing, sence thats the one that has to go in first??? Its been so long sence I did a set of these that I dont remember which one is 1... lol.... I know its a stupid question, but I dont want to put the wrong one in the wrong place. I know there differant. I just dont remember if "1" is the rear bearing or the front....

[carvinmark]

The smallest one goes in the rear