Benefits of an X-pipe vs straight pipes?

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Benefits of an X-pipe vs straight pipes?

Post by cgrey8 »

Ever since my V8 conversion, my truck has had dual exhaust. However there's no joining of the two exhaust banks. Unlike with Mustangs, my exhaust pipes go parallel to each other down the passenger side of the truck since there's a gas tank in the way on the driver's side thus making the driver's side track considerably longer than the passenger side. The driver's side pipe coming down off the header goes under the engine to join with the passenger's side pipe. Then they travel down the length of the truck where they hit the CATs, then the mufflers. Then the driver's side pipe separates off and cuts back over to the driver's side of the truck.

I've always noticed that there's a tonal difference between the two pipes, but I just assumed it was the difference in length. However I noticed something else interesting about my exhaust behavior. It creates a vacuum at times during the engine cycle. I can take a shop rag and hang it over the exhaust pipe of either bank, and there's not a constant positive flow of exhaust out the tailpipe at idle. It actually sucks the rag into the tail pipe as well as blowing it out. Obviously more has to be coming out of the tailpipe than going in so the rag doesn't get very far up the pipe (maybe 2-3") before it's blown out. But it is most definitely got a funky positive/negative pressure pattern at idle. And if you hold rags over both pipes at the same time, I can see that the vacuum pulses are not happening at the same time. It alternates between the banks. I assume this phenomenon happens because the cam holds the exhaust valve open even after the piston is headed down for the intake stroke thus sucking some exhaust back into the combustion chamber and creating a vacuum. But having that reverbing up and down the entire exhaust track can't be good for efficiency.

So what I'm considering doing is getting an X-pipe installed just after the two pipes join each other on the passenger side of the truck (before the CATS). Then the positive flow from one bank can satisfy the vacuum created by the other. And when they are both flowing positively, they can get the benefit of both exit tracks thus reducing the back-pressure that the CATS and mufflers create. Does that sound like a good thing to do or is there a compelling reason to NOT install an X-pipe?

I also considered installing the X-pipe just after the CATs so that the exhaust that's getting sucked back up the line flows through more than one CAT theoretically giving the exhaust more CAT-time to cleanup. But from an efficiency standpoint, not a civic-minded standpoint, the CATs put up a fair amount of back-pressure (even being high flow CATs) and installing the X-pipe before them would allow either exhaust bank to flow exhaust through both CATs and mufflers simultaneously thus reducing the instantaneous flow through both exiting tracks which reduces friction and thus reduces back-pressure. Lower back-pressure USUALLY means better performance. And the shape of X-pipes usually promotes a venturi-effect to help with scavenging. That's all theory and advertisement hype. So I thought I'd pose the same scenario to others and see what you guys thought. But most of all, I want to get opinions on whether installing an X-pipe would improve efficiency enough to improve gas mileage vs running straight dual pipes?

Keep in mind, this is a stock engine with only 2" exhaust pipes coming down off the headers. The X-pipe would be a 2.5" just because that's all I can find for an affordable price. Here's what I'm looking at getting, Vision Motorworks T304 stainless 2.5" X:
Image
T304 stainless (that's not chrome). $40 inc shipping

Magnaflow's X has a better flow design with more subtle transitions entering and leaving the X. And the casing looks like it is formed with a bit more precision than the above. But it's made of a slightly lower quality 409 stainless:
Image
$90 shipped...over twice as much as the above. I don't live where it snows a lot so corrosion resistance isn't nearly as big of a deal to me. Either will outlast the aluminized steel tubing the exhaust is made from. Magnaflow does sell this X in a 2.25" version which would fit the existing pipes. But do the benefits of the Magnaflow make up the difference of costing over twice as much? If this were a true performance application, it would be a no-brainer. But on a stock motor, would it really make a difference? Also keep in mind, my MAIN focus for adding this is not for performance. It's to see if I can get any better fuel economy by reducing the length of the negative-pressure reverberations that I see travelling up and down the exhaust line and reduce back-pressure by giving both banks two separate exit paths to travel.
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Post by cgrey8 »

Here's a vid of what my exhaust is doing. The audio isn't great, but it's there. It's not quite as obvious in the video how much the rag is going back up into the exhaust. Even with my camera at the highest frame rate, it's still not showing everything. But I think it's enough for you to get the idea of what I'm seeing:
Exhaust Reverb seen with a Rag
...Always Somethin'

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Post by Dave »

Chris,
Been a lot of discussion on cross-over pipes, x-type vs the old H-style. Think it comes down to a really small difference over-all between the two. Important thing in the testing is to at least run one or the other. Not sure how the anlogy is but kind of like having one of the expansion tubes in your water line, nothing flows thru it but it balances out the flow.
Dave
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Post by 87sc302 »

I have 2 1/2 pipes (dual) on mine with a single flowmaster with 2 inlets and 2 outlets. I thought about an X pipe but I wonder if the single muffler is acting some what like an H pipe?
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Post by cgrey8 »

I'm sure it is.

Another twist that was suggested on another forum was that putting the X before the CATs could shorten the CAT life. I don't see how that's possible, but the guy claimed that on 2 different vehicles that he's seen this done on, the CATs prematurely failed after about 2 years. While I don't doubt the claim, I'm questioning whether the failure was due to the X-pipe location or due to some other completely unrelated issue. If there is some truth to that, I'd like to know why this happens. The only difference I could think of between having the X before or after the CATs is that the negative pulses would reverb through the CATs if the X was after them. Perhaps the negative flow helps keep the CATs clean or maybe just flowing a portion of the exhaust through the CATs multiple times has some positive benefit to CAT life? But then I got to thinking...putting the X-pipe before the CATs seems just the same as putting a Y-pipe before a single CAT in a single exhaust system. Any reverb of negative pressure would be alleviated by the Y-pipe before the CAT and plenty of vehicles (both stock and aftermarket) run this configuration to avoid the cost of installing 2 CATs. Even the stock 2.9L V6 setup had the Y before the CAT.

So, personally I'm going to need a little more than hearsay to convince me that installing the X before the CATs is a bad thing. Every piece of logic in my head says that putting the X before the CATs is better than putting it after from a performance and fuel economy stance. Now perhaps there's some emission benefit by putting the X after, but this isn't an emissions decision to add the X. It's purely an efficiency decision and curiosity to see what happens. Any performance that I gain as a result is just icing on the cake...but I like icing too so I won't be complaining about any extra umph.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Post by Dave »

Hey Chris,
Just how far back are them Cats from the manifold? Just looked at the ones on my Explorer exhaust and the first one on each side is only 12" from the connection and the second pair is about 36" behind them. Most of the cross-overs I have seen are after the Cats because of fitment I would guess and the need to keep the Cats hot.
Anyway, it has been raining this morning so I did some looking and found a bunch of comments I thought I would pass along.
Dave - Lots of different ideas and thoughts


For any performance exhaust system, some type of crossover connecting the two sides of a dual exhaust system is important because it acts to balance the two banks of the engine. The common H-style crossover is good at balancing sound pulses between the two halves, but does little to promote scavenging because the exhaust gases tend to follow the path of least resistance, which is straight through each pipe rather than taking the 90-degree turn through the H-pipe into the other half of the system. In an X-pipe system, however, where the two sides of the system intersect, the gasses have no choice but to intermingle as they pass through the junction. This promotes improved scavenging effects by smoothing out uneven exhaust pulses from the engine’s firing order. It also helps quiet down the exhaust, resulting in a mellower, less raspy tone. According to Magnaflow, the faster acceleration of the gasses through an X-pipe causes them to flow in a linear fashion parallel to the walls of the tubing rather than tumbling. This “laminarâ€
'66'Ranchero 302/5 speed
2015 Stage 3 Roush - rated at 670 hp
2000 Ext Cab/4 door swap project
2000 Ext Cab/4 door, Summer beater
2000 Ext Cab/4 door, Winter beater
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Post by cgrey8 »

Ahh, that makes more sense. Stock CATs need to be closer to the engine to stay warm. These are aftermarket high flow CATs and they are mounted just shy of 1/2 way down the length of the truck. Here's a pic of them being installed:
Image
The stock setup had 2 CATs back-to-back. There's a heat shield under the body (not visible) where the old CATs were. He located these roughly where the 2nd CAT was located. You can see the hangers shortly after the CATs where the mufflers are welded in. I'll see if I can get a pic of the entire exhaust system now that it's installed. He may have to do some relocating of the CATs to get the X installed...I don't know. There should be plenty of room to work with though.

And all that other info you posted is all consistent with what I've been reading. Thanks...
...Always Somethin'

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Post by MalcolmV8 »

On the 03 Cobra forums x pipes dyno'd more power in general but the difference was so minimal I went with an h-pipe because I prefer the deeper rumble rather than the higher raspy type sound the x pipes have.
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04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
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Post by Dave »

That's about what all I got from a lot of the different sites, the "H" gives a deeper sound and from a lot of the 5.0 sites, said that was the way to go. "H" had the more torque down low.
Malcom, ran into someone from your area who had taken a look at your blue truck, tring to get him to join this happy group. He's wanting to do the 2000 manual swap.
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Post by cgrey8 »

Well, now that the X is in, I've had a few days to drive it back and forth to work to see if there's much difference. The main difference is the sound. It does have a smoother sound now. From the cab, it kind of reminds me of how foreign V8s sound like Ferraris...but of course nobody would ever mistake it for a Ferrari engine from the outside sound. But in the cab, it does have a similar high-pitch smoothness to it if that makes any sense. From the outside, it unfortunately almost reminds me of a V6 at idle. It's not until the engine revs a little that it becomes obvious it is a V8. I guess if this was a built engine, that would be more "disguise" for the sneaker aspect? But it's just a fun daily driver. Not a race truck.

There are so many things that have changed, I almost don't feel right giving any kind of performance or fuel economy report yet. The CATs were replaced, the Atlanta fuel quality for the next few days has been changed/lowered to relieve the gas crisis we were having. And then of course, my driving may be a little lighter since I'm "looking" for a fuel economy benefit. But so far, my datalogging software that I use most everyday on my trip to and from work is indicating a clear increase in fuel economy. Where I was averaging an "estimated" 22-24MPG. The past few days have been averaging in the 25s. I can't say that's unusual because it's averaged that high before in light traffic which is what this past week has been. So like I said, the jury's still out but the initial findings so far are encouraging. BTW, the estimation software always estimates a little high. At the pump, it's always at least a MPG less. But when I datalog higher values, I do get higher values at the pump even if there is an offset error there. Typical MPG is mid 22s when I datalog 23s and 24s. Amazingly, that's city driving. It NEVER got near that good before the acetone.

One thing I'm still not sure on is the performance effect. At times, it feels like it's mushier and not quite as responsive just cruising around and taking off at lights-n-stuff. But other times it feels stronger. I've only WOTed it once or twice and it was a 1st and 2nd gear WOT...not in WOT near long enough to get a feel for any improvement. It broke the tires loose in 1st, but I usually expect it to chirp them. So the fact that it broke them loose might have been just some sand on the road? Again...too soon to tell.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Post by 87sc302 »

Chris,

Can you get an audio clip?

I would like to hear the new sound.

Larry
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Post by cgrey8 »

I'll see what I can do. My camera didn't pickup the audio at the pipes as well as I was hoping when I did the rag-over-the-pipes video before the X install. But I can certainly try as well as show how a rag behaves when held over the pipes now.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Post by Dave »

Larry, this site ought to give you enough choices to listen to!
http://www.mustangexhaust.com/forums/so ... hp?catid=7
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Post by MalcolmV8 »

Chris when I got some audio clips of my red truck the best sound quality came from when the camera was on the side of the truck. As soon as I went behind the truck the sound was to loud and it was maxing out the mic and creating poor sound quality. You might experiment with stuff like that.

I have an idle clip I've posted in the forums somewhere from the red truck.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

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Post by cgrey8 »

I got another video of the exhaust with the X-pipe in place. I stood by the pipes today and it didn't sound that much different. I can hear the difference while I drive it. But standing right by the pipes while its idling doesn't sound as different as I thought. Here's the vid:
ExhaustAfterXpipe.mpg
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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