V8 Explorer Bracket setup vs. Mustang's setup

cgrey8 · Post by **cgrey8** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:33 pm

After doing some checking this afternoon, a local salvage yard literally just came across a '97 V8 Explorer. For whatever reason, he's not really interested in selling the whole vehicle, however he told me he'd sell me the computer, harness, engine, and all engine componenets (AC, PS, ALT, Starter, Sensors, & Controls), and pull it all from the donor for $800+tx.

It has an automatic I'm not interested in so they will keep that. Malcolm suggested that if I can find a V8 Explorer, I should jump on it. I sortof found one.

The guy at the salvage yard said that the engine has GT40 heads on it. It doesn't really matter since yall've heard me rant about how I'll be replacing them and most of the other components with aftermarket stuff anyway. Although, how much do you think the crank, rods, pistons, heads, cam, lifters, pushrods, and intake would bring back to me on for instance on Ebay? Is there a chance I could get $300 back out of them since I'm replacing them all?

Is $800 a fair price for all this considering they will do the heavy work of getting it out for me, I won't have to deal with a junk vehicle in my yard, and I'll be able to sell back components off the engine that I don't use?

Is there anything I should make sure to get off of it other than the engine, harness, computer, and components (i.e. Rad, O2 sensors, etc)?

If that seems like a fair price, then I'll probably have my 1st purchase towards this swap by the new year. Now I've got to get a Digital Camera so I can start taking pictures of everything I've done and where I've been.

Chris

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:31 pm

Chris,
What you are going to get on all the internal parts depends mostly on the miles and condition of the motor. My feeling is that most people would just rather get them on their own rather than E-Bay. The best part of an Explorer motor from a yard is that it has the Cobra intake with the 90 deg elbow out of the throttle body that eliminates in most cases having to modify your air box. Checked with www.ezfindparts.com and they are asking $316 (each) for the upper and lower intakes (20,000 miles on them), that might be a mistake on their listing that would include both. Second best thing is getting the short front accesory drive items.
New from Ford the two brackets and the idler pulley will run you $250. The fan clutch was something like $250! The power steering (plastic) resevoir runs about $55, pulley about $18. This is what people have warned about all the little the little nickel and dime things. If you happen to have an Explorer with the cast iron exhaust headers, seen them go for almost $200 on Ebay. The tube ones are junk. Makes $800 sound not all that bad.
Dave (in REALLY getting cold Wisconsin)

MercuRanger · Post by **MercuRanger** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:17 am

Sounds like a great deal to me. He probably wants to keep the rest of it because he can make a killing selling a wheel here, a seat there. That's the business to be in. Take cars for free or next to nothing, then make all your money back on selling one wheel/tire. The rest is profit.

Just make sure you get everything, and make sure they don't cut harnesses, brackets, manifolds, etc.

Assuming good condition, you'll be able to top $100 for the heads alone, and probably about that for the manifolds (intake & exhaust) on ebay. By the sound of it, you're going to be ditching just about everything but the block, so selling things piece by piece (a-la junkyard) may even net you a profit (don't count on it though)

Mike

cgrey8 · Post by **cgrey8** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:06 am

It's good to hear that $800 is fair. It's also nice to know that I'll be able to get something back on the parts. I completely forgot to look at the mileage of the truck when I was there, but when I go back, I'll be sure to. I do remember somebody'd already salvaged the RE out of it so I couldn't get a glance at the back tires, however the front tires were not factory and they had tread, but were on the ladder half of their life. Thus there's no way the engine is less than 50kmiles.

Dave wrote: ...If you happen to have an Explorer with the cast iron exhaust headers, seen them go for almost $200 on Ebay. The tube ones are junk...

To answer Dave, I think the exhaust manifolds are the tube ones. I looked down into the engine compartment, and it appeared to be some weird looking header that snaked up then back down on 2 of the 4 cyliders on each side for clearance. I wasn't too impressed, but at the same time, there wasn't a lot of clearance down in there.

After a night's sleep, I remembered a few things that may get forgetten.

1. The MAF sensor and air-box.

Unless/until I come across a better setup, I'll need those. I know I said all sensors, however that's a blanket term if the guy doesn't realize that the dull cast aluminum collar with wires going to it between the big rubber snake and the air-box is a sensor. He seemed pretty sharp, but you never know with these yardies. Take the guy that burned Malcolm on the 8.8" Explorer RE telling him it was the identical setup as a Ranger's RE. Malcolm can tell you all about how identical they are. Or he'll just save his breath, try to forget the incident, and point you here:

http://www.v8-ranger.com/rearend/rearend.html

2. The OBD-II connector that's inside the cab.
With these newer Fords with the OBD-II (Ford EEC-V '95-up), the computer is on the passenger side of the engine inside the engine compartment. However the OBD-II connection port is inside the cab is it not?

On the OBD-I (Ford EEC-IV) setup, the computer was inside, and the OBD-I diagnostics connection was under the hood. Bass-Ackwards...

3. HO2 sensors.
Most cars today have an O2 sensor before the cat(s) and an HO2 sensor after the cat(s) so that the computer can determine if the cat(s) is working and flag when it needs to be replaced. If you simply don't connect the HO2 sensor, the Check Engine Light stays on and if my county ever does go emission legal, my efforts in preserving the EGR system are for nothing.

A guy was telling me that they have O2 sims that you can connect to the computer that fakes out a "good" signal on the HO2's. I've never known anybody that used them. Do they work? If so, that may not be a big deal.

Anybody think of any other part I should make sure to get?

Chris

MalcolmV8 · Post by **MalcolmV8** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:16 am

cgrey8 wrote:A guy was telling me that they have O2 sims that you can connect to the computer that fakes out a "good" signal on the HO2's.

Check out this site
http://www.mileliminators.com/

I've seen nicer ones that just plug right into your harness. I see them on Ebay all the time. Or if you want you can even just have a custom chip burnt for your ECC and they can turn it off in there.

BTW - $800 for all that stuff sounds good providing everything is all there and OK. I spent much more than that just trying to find all the misc pieces I was missing. You might stress to the guy not to hack up the harness or cut any wires. Even offer to come before hand and take the harness off yourself. Nothing sucks worse than a bunch of loose cut wires on your harness. Where do they go? What do they do? Where can I get connectors for them etc.

Later
Malcolm

stranger · Post by **stranger** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:14 am

if your going explorer accys be sure to get the damper.wp and tc cover,they will allow the most fan rad clearence possible on a 5.0.the 94-95 hybrid gives less clearence,but more than any other except for the explorer.

plowboy34 · Post by **plowboy34** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:35 pm

Hey cgrey8, first off I believe $800 for that explorer engine is a good deal if it comes with all the front accessories, computer, and harness. I would jump on that in a heartbeat.

Also I just want to say again that I think you are waisting your money replacing all the internal parts. With that engine you are getting, a little bigger cam, bigger injectors and mass air meter and WOO-HOO, you will have a GETIN IT little ride that will be very very very dependable. That engine should have the GT40 "P" heads which are really good heads for factory. Just have the ports polished up and they really do flow quite well. Just my opinion, but I really do believe you will be very satisfied with what you have and spend a WHOLE LOT LESS MONEY

Hope Everybody Had A MERRY CHRISTMAS

MalcolmV8 · Post by **MalcolmV8** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 12:41 pm

plowboy34 wrote:Also I just want to say again that I think you are waisting your money replacing all the internal parts. With that engine you are getting, a little bigger cam, bigger injectors and mass air meter and WOO-HOO, you will have a GETIN IT little ride that will be very very very dependable. That engine should have the GT40 "P" heads which are really good heads for factory. Just have the ports polished up and they really do flow quite well. Just my opinion, but I really do believe you will be very satisfied with what you have and spend a WHOLE LOT LESS MONEY

Cgrey8, just wanted to chip in my 2 cents

I must say I also think you'll be spending a lot more money than you need to. Especially since you're building a daily driver and not a radical drag only truck. Of course by all means build what makes you happy, after all it's your truck. But if you're worried about power I think you'll find that Explorer motor will give you quite a kick as plowboy pointed out. If nothing else I guess you could drive the Explorer motor for a while and if you think it's just not cutting if for you then pull it and rebuild it wild. Just some thoughts.

Later
Malcolm

cgrey8 · Post by **cgrey8** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 2:48 pm

Keeping the stock heads, intake, and cam are certainly a consideration and one I may do. I wish I knew someone with a V8 Explorer so I could get a broad idea as to what a stock Explorer V8 will do.

As for getting the engine, yall (yes I’m suth’n, I talk and type with an accent) have made up my mind for me on jumping at this opporotunity. The yard opens tomorrow morning, so I'll tell them I want it.

As for the further mods, I may be overdoing things a bit, I don't know. I've never built an engine with aluminum heads. However, I do know aluminum is considerably lighter and it is the lighter weight I was going for, not the performance gains; that is simply icing on the cake. I know Rangers have a hard enough time being front heavy, I thought going with a lighter setup would help with a known problem with load distribution ESPECIALLY since this is an extended cab truck. Of course, if the GT40s are that good, maybe the pros don’t outweigh the expense. Like I’ve said before, I don’t want to throw away money, but at the same time, I want to do it right.

I've got other questions I'm sure yall can help me out with, however instead of bloating out this thread even longer, I'll just start over with new posts.

Thanks for the feedback so far and I hope yall had a good Christmas.
Chris

MalcolmV8 · Post by **MalcolmV8** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 5:45 pm

Aluminum heads for weight savings is something I did myself but you don't have to swap out the crank, rods, pistons etc. etc. I don't remember how much the aluminum heads weighed but my iron heads I pulled were around 55lb a piece. The aluminum pieces were so light it's amazing.

cgrey8 · Post by **cgrey8** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:01 pm

The crank and piston pull is likely going to be done anyway. The block I'm getting (as I mentioned in another thread) has 128kmiles. I'll have the block taken to a machine shop to be decked and verified for true structure. If there's a twist in the block, it'll need to be bored to re-true the bores to the centerline of the crank.

However the reason I wanted to replace the crank, pistons, and rods is to get the long-arm advantage in efficiency (better fuel economy) which theoretically allows a modified (higher compression) engine to use 87 octane without excessive pre-detonation. I currently have to run 92/93 in my 2.9L and have since I 1st got the truck because it behaves so much better with the higher octane.

Again, I may be going overboard with that. I guess subconsciously, I don't want to build a machine that isn't worth the effort. My step-father is notorious for budget engine builds/rebuilds and they were never worth a crap because he didn't want to spend the money on the things that the engine needed. But he'd think he was doing a good job putting an aluminum intake on the thing...

Both of your points are well taken though and ones I'll have to think about, consider, and research before I make a purchase. I certainly don't want to discourage your comments and opinions. Yall are the ones that have done this, I haven't (yet). So your opinions are valuable to me.

Chris

stranger · Post by **stranger** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 7:53 pm

thats sound thinking.but the machining costs and parts,and labor.can easily exceed the cost of a forged stroker 50 oz short block.cubes and lower compression(9.0-9.5) will give you more potential with 87 octane than long arm 302/306 and higher compression.just add old pan,pickup,and accys,and allum heads of choice.i have an explorer short block,and i will not expect more than 500 sae gross fwhp.safetly from it.or any other stock block.an aftermarket 4 bolt block is better suited for higher hp levels.

plowboy34 · Post by **plowboy34** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:13 pm

Just my opinion again, just please remember I completely agree with Malcolm about the fact that it is your truck and I'm not trying to talk you into anything, just giving you an opinion, a CRAZY FARMERS opinion...LOL

About the aluminum heads and the weight difference. I don't believe the 80-85 pound difference you will gain is going to make that big a difference. My son's truck really handles good for a truck. I must add though we did put sway bars on it. Do not go spend big $$$ on those aftermarket ones either. We went to the junk yard and walked around until we found Rangers with sway bars on them. We put them front and rear. We paid $20 a piece and that was with all the hardware. We even pulled one off a 94 Ranger and it bolted right on a 85. We didn't have to drill holes or nothing, bolted right on, all the correct holes were already there. It was very easy. The difference it made is this. We have a freeway exit that he could only take at 40mph with the 2.3 four banger in it and that was pushing it, it was leaning and felt like it was ready to break loose. We installed the 5.0 and sway bars at the same time and he now can take same corner at 60 and it feels rock solid, it does not lean and really feels good as you go through corner. You feel as if you could gas it even more but we don't want to get stupid either, the difference with the sway bars was insane.

Also I agree with Stranger, lower compression ratio, add a bigger cam, get very satisfactory power and performance on 87 octane. I would replace the pistons if you are doing a major O/haul but not rods and crank. Also another thought on the stroker since you are going to make it a daily driver is the fact that it puts more pressure on the piston and cylinder walls. The bigger the stroker the more the pressure, does not make good for a daily driver. Again just my thoughts, but it's your truck, It's like Burger King, build it your way and ENJOY your truck, cause I know when you get it done no matter which way you go you will have a new love for that truck. They are a blast.

V8-Ranger.com

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