V8 Explorer Bracket setup vs. Mustang's setup

cgrey8 · Post by **cgrey8** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:22 pm

I've heard of a number of people refer to the V8 Explorer bracket setup being the ideal setup for Ranger swaps. However were Explorer V8s MAF with roller cam? If they were, then would I be better off finding a V8 Explorer Donor instead of an 89-93 Mustang donor?

Can anybody offer some pros and cons to both the V8 Explorer and 'stang setup? Malcolm, what's your setup?

Here's another thought I want to throw out, as I mentioned in another thread, I don't plan on using any of the donor's factory engine components (intake, heads, pistons, cam, crank, etc) except the block from whatever donor I choose. Would it be cheaper/easier to buy a 302, all the aftermarket engine parts (which I'll be buying anyway) and buy the brackets, MAF computer, harness, and accessories all separately or are there other options and benefits I haven't considered yet that having a donor offers?

Chris

MalcolmV8 · Post by **MalcolmV8** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:07 pm

Yes the Explorer V8 is MAF and roller cam. It would make an excellent donor. If you can find one go for it.

With regards to purchasing just a block and picking up all the other pieces, don't do it. I can tell you first hand it will nickel and dime you to death. I thought I could get by without a donor vehicle but really all the after market stuff always seems to reuse hardware from the stock parts you're replacing. Problem is if you're not replacing any stock hardware but just purchasing after market parts you're missing all the little stuff that can be VERY hard to find and even when you do the whole process works out very expensive.

As for the bracket setup. I have 94-95 Mustang passanger's side bracket and 97 Explorer driver's side shimmed up approx 7/16" to line up the pullies. I have some pics of the difference between the two over here

http://www.v8-ranger.com/projects/v8ran ... ress.shtml

The main reason is for location of A/C compressor. The stang setup puts it right into the frame. The Explorer setup has it higher up. Also you'll have to use the Explorer power steering pump with this bracket which has the remote reservoir. It hooks up just fine.

Malcolm

plowboy34 · Post by **plowboy34** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:38 pm

Hey Cgrey8, You haven't said if your building this truck for strip or street. If your going for a nice streeter I wouldn't go through the cost and hassle of buying everything seperate. If you get a MAF setup, with just a few changes like cam and air sensor and injectors you can make that baby sing. If you really build that thing you won't hardly be able to enjoy the truck. I knew someone who had about a 350 horse engine and had a lot of fun. He then pumped that dude to 600 and couldn't even hardly drive it. He absolutely couldn't drive it in the rain. I just thought I would give you that info, if you really want to enjoy a truck with some real good power I wouldn't go crazy on the engine. My son's is putting out about 250 and we have a blast with it. It could use another 75 and it would be just dandy. Just one crazy farmers opinion.

cjcnomor4 · Post by **cjcnomor4** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:47 pm

mine started life as a mountineer(explorer's classy brother). i got gt-40p heads on a motor with 6k miles. i swaped out the cam for a motorsport e-303 and put in a true double roller chain set. replaced the stock rockers with a set of 1.6 rollers, set the heads out for some port work. got a trick flow intake and msd ignition. i also bought a wrecked 92 gt and was going to put the mustang parts on the 98 block. everything swaps over just fine. i have since switched the timing cover and front accessories for the mountianeer parts for clearance. my hooker headers dont fit right because of the different plug angles on the p heads. i'm planning on the mustang harness and pcm just for the ease of upgrades. it'll have the mustang aod instead of the 4r70w in the exp/mount. the heads are suppose to out flow the stock gt heads but the cam in the suv has less lift and duration. the suv intake is supposed to be similar to a gt-40. i now wish i would have got a complete vehicle instead of just the long block. now i have to buy all the stuff that attaches to the motor (p/s, a/c, pulleys brackets, etc). and i have a garage full of stuff i took off the mustang that i'm not using now.

stranger · Post by **stranger** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:49 pm

what year ranger?what type.a lot of the explorer parts are ideal for any ranger swap others are not.i did mine with an explorer crate.and still needed much in accesory parts.if you find a 2wd ex/mount.and plan on auto trans.grab it.or if 4x4 auto change to the ex auto awd.much stronger than any other that fit.i ate 3 aod's well built too,in the first 18 months.this 4r70w i have now is still going strong 3 years latter.

cgrey8 · Post by **cgrey8** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:24 pm

I have an '89 Ranger Supercab currently with a 2.9L and 5-speed Mazda Synchromesh. I'm wanting to build it for street use so it can be my everyday driver just the way it is now. I'm not looking to win any races, I just want a fun truck to build. Plowboy, I can imagine that even 350 horses will be a little scarey and overwhelming at first. However, I couldn't imagine 600hp. I'd think you could easily take off in 3rd and chirp the tires in 5th. For my build, I'm not looking to scream the engine past 5500RPM.

For the others that asked what the plan is, the lineup so far is Summit Racing's Trick Flow kit for about 2grand that includes Aluminum Twisted Wedge heads w/ 1.6:1 roller rockers, Trick Flow's Roller Cam (which has higher lift than the E303 according to Summit's numbers), Trick Flow's upper and lower intake, pushrods, and timing chain/gear set.

For the shortblock, I want to long-arm it with 5.565" rods, but still keep the displacement at 302 or 306 if the block is worn beyond spec to need a .030 bore.

http://www.speedomotive.com/ford_302_to ... master.htm

Since the 331 (http://www.speedomotive.com/ford_302_to ... nk_kit.htm)and 347 (http://www.speedomotive.com/ford_302_to ... troker.htm) stroker kits are the same price, I considered them, but I decided that the benefits of the long-arm were not worth the trade-off to get higher compression & displacement. Although the stroke-to-rod ratio of the 331 (using 5.400" rods) is still better than the factory 302 setup using 5.090" rods. It wouldn't take much for someone to talk me into getting the 331 setup if they highly recommended it from experience.

I'd like to put a T5 behind it with a 3.27:1 RE. I am a little concerned about the torque handling of a T5. However since I'm not looking to tub out the bed with slicks, I doubt I'll ever be able to produce full torque load on the tranny in the low gears. However if I really should be looking at the Tremec 3550 ot T56, let me know why so I can research that. If I did go with another tranny such as the T56 or 3550, what would this change? Are bellhousings the same? I know next to nothing about these other than that other Ranger swappers mention having them from time to time.

Malcolm's currently rebuilding his RE and putting 3.27s in it. So based on the feedback he gives as to how much it improves the cruising RPMs will decide for me whether I go with 3.27s myself, or lower to 3.55s or up to 3.06 (is there a 3.06 for 8.8"?).

Malcolm recommended his L&L headers saying that they cleared his sparkplugs and other under-hood components nicely, so I'll probably go with them until someone else says there's another that's better suited for Twisted Wedge heads and Ranger swaps and can backup why they are better.

Most of my driving is road driving, so I don't mind if my 5th gear doesn't kick in until late (low to mid 50s). My main focus is to get the best fuel economy as can be expected from a moderately built motor. I figure with Trick Flow's estimates of 360ft-lbs when using that kit and the added torque&efficiency gains from the long-arm setup, I shouldn't be hurtin' for torque even if the 5th is a little high with 3.27s in the RE. Thoughts?

Malcolm's feedback regarding the hodge-podge setup between Explorer and Mustang brackets is the kind of info I'm looking for...what other tricks/rigs (like shimming) will I be looking at when I get ready to slap all the front-engine components together?

Another thought, will I be able to use the 2.9L factory throttle cable or will that have to go in lieu of the 5.0L TB being on the passenger side?

Thanks for the comments so far,
Chris

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:51 pm

Chris,
Going to send you a couple of pages I scaned in from an article from Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords on dyno tests of just what you are looking at. It really doesnt take all that much to do what you are looking at to reach 350 lb-ft of torque with a stock block motor.
Dave

cgrey8 · Post by **cgrey8** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:13 pm

cgrey8 wrote:Although the stroke-to-rod ratio of the 331 (using 5.400" rods) is still better than the factory 302 setup using 5.090" rods.

A slight modification to my comment above. There's no long-arm advantage in a 327/331 stroker setup. 327/331 strokers actually have a slightly lower than factory rod-to-stroke ratio. Notice:

Factory 302/Bored .030 to 306:
5.090"rod / 3.0"stroke = 1.696-

Stroked 302 to 327/331:
5.400"rod / 3.25"stroke = 1.662 (slightly lower)

Long-Arm 302/306:
5.565"rod / 3.0"stroke = 1.855 (considerably larger than factory)

Including this one for reference for those not familiar with the stroker options...notice the "short-arm" disadvantage" of a 342/347 setup:
5.400"rod / 3.4"stroke = 1.588 (significantly lower than factory)

Dave,
Thanks...I'm also wanting to use the aluminum heads and lighter weight intakes in order to lighten the front-end. Regular Cab Rangers already have problems with traction due to load distribution, a Supercab I'm sure will be even worse. So the intention is not just for performance additions, but also for weight reasons as well.

I'll certainly read over what you sent me. I'll read anything of significance. As I said, I don't mind spending money if there's a return on investment. But I don't want to be wasting money...u know?

Chris

MalcolmV8 · Post by **MalcolmV8** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:47 am

cgrey8 wrote:I'd like to put a T5 behind it with a 3.27:1 RE. I am a little concerned about the torque handling of a T5. However since I'm not looking to tub out the bed with slicks, I doubt I'll ever be able to produce full torque load on the tranny in the low gears. However if I really should be looking at the Tremec 3550 ot T56, let me know why so I can research that. If I did go with another tranny such as the T56 or 3550, what would this change? Are bellhousings the same? I know next to nothing about these other than that other Ranger swappers mention having them from time to time.

Malcolm's currently rebuilding his RE and putting 3.27s in it. So based on the feedback he gives as to how much it improves the cruising RPMs will decide for me whether I go with 3.27s myself, or lower to 3.55s or up to 3.06 (is there a 3.06 for 8.8"?).

Malcolm recommended his L&L headers saying that they cleared his sparkplugs and other under-hood components nicely

If you have worries about the T5 you might look at the G-Force built T5s. They build T5s very strong. The G-Force T5s cost a lot less than the 3550 or T56. Plus if you've ever driven a 3550 you'll notice it's quite notchy to shift compare to the T5 which is very smooth. If you have the cash though go for the T56, VERY nice.

It's 3.08 gears.

And yes the L&L headers were very very nice. The only thing that probably prevents most people from using them is price. I nearly didn't get them myself but in the end decided that's what I was wanting. The quality and fit was exceptional.

MalcolmV8 · Post by **MalcolmV8** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:58 am

cgrey8 wrote:Another thought, will I be able to use the 2.9L factory throttle cable or will that have to go in lieu of the 5.0L TB being on the passenger side?

I personally had quite a challenge trying to figure out my throttle cable situation. In the end I got a Lokar cable at the length needed and fab'd up a little bracket by the throttle body. I have some pictures but haven't had a chance to make up a page out of it. Here's some pictures.

http://www.v8-ranger.com/temp/tc/t1.jpg

There are 10 pictures. Just keep changing the number at the end of the URL from 1.jpg to 2.jpg and so forth up to 10.

You'll also see the little loop I welded onto the back of my gas pedal for the Lokar cable.

I know others have all had different experiences with throttle cables. Perhaps others will chip in with their solutions.

Malcolm

cgrey8 · Post by **cgrey8** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:40 pm

So what's a fair price for a donor? Presumably a donor that doesn't run due to a wreck or some other mechanical problem that's not worth paying to fix but the major parts are still good.

???

Chris

MercuRanger · Post by **MercuRanger** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:38 am

I got my '86 Marquis for $300 and drove it home. OD was bad in the tranny and it had a massive oil leak. I couldn't pass it up. Not sure I'd do it again - I'd probably pay a bit more ($500-ish?) and hold out for something with an HO.

Mike

cgrey8 · Post by **cgrey8** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:16 am

MercuRanger wrote:I got my '86 Marquis for $300 and drove it home...

Did you keep it all factory or did you build it?

If you built it, what all did you have to do to the computer to make up for your mods since those were not MAF?

Chris

MercuRanger · Post by **MercuRanger** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:09 am

Well, it's basically stock. I'm in the process of converting to the HO upper intake/TB right now. I have stock '94 Mustang headers and 2 1/2" dual exhaust, and a cone air filter. Feels a lot stronger than a stock Marquis, but it's got almost a 1000 lb weight advantage.

My biggest regret in rebuilding the Marquis engine is that I didn't change over to flycut pistons. That means if I want anything more than a stock HO cam, I'll probably have piston to valve clearance issues.

If you want info on differences between the HO and non-HO setups, and modifying/converting the non-HO's, check out http://www.coolcats.net

Mike

cgrey8 · Post by **cgrey8** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:41 am

I looked for that info when you sent that link to me the 1st time and never could find it. I guess I wasn't looking hard enough.

HO Conversion:
http://www.coolcats.net/tech/advanced/h ... rsion.html

MAF Conversion:
http://www.coolcats.net/tech/advanced/massair.html

Good stuff...

I'll read it over.

Thanks again...

For others, I'm interested in hearing from others what a good price is for a donor (Mustang or Explorer V8) and what is too much for a donor. As long as the block isn't cracked, I'm fine.

Chris

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V8 Explorer Bracket setup vs. Mustang's setup

V8 Explorer Bracket setup vs. Mustang's setup

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