What are the T56 issues during V8 Conversion?

[cgrey8]

Dave and I were throwing questions back and forth (more me asking and him answering) via email however I wanted to get some feedback from others that may have some experience.

What I'm comparing is either a T5 or T56. The T5 appears simpler to me just because I know (from Malcolm's site) which bell housing to get and how the slave will mount to it using his pictures as a guide. However all the pictures I've seen of the T56, and the measures, it APPEARS as though it doesn't use the factory bell. Am I right or wrong there? Note this picture from D&D...



http://www.ddperformance.com/T56%20Kits.htm

Notice in Blue the big thick splines that you don't see on a regular T5 factory bell. I'm assuming those will follow under the normal curve of a factory bell, but I'm not positive of that.

In Red, it appears to show a place to mount a slave but I think that's something else based on this next shot.



http://www.ddperformance.com/t56__6_spe ... ssions.htm


In this shot, I circled in Red what I think I was seeing in the previous picture. That's too high for a slave. However I still can't see the backside of the bell (Blue arrow) to see if there's enough flat space to drill holes for a slave cylinder mount. I guess worst case scenario, a mount could be fabricated to fit under the tranny-to-bell bolts, but that's more complicated than a piece of angle-iron and drilled holes.

Going on appearance, it seems that the T56 bell is shorter than T5 ('93 and back) factory bell. If that's true, I assume they did that because the T56 is longer than the T5.


http://www.ddperformance.com/images/t56dia.jpg


http://www.ddperformance.com/images/t5dia.jpg

Notice the T56 is 840.0mm from bell to tail (not inc. the input shaft splines and pilot surface). The T5 is 811.2mm (182.6 "B" + 628.6mm "D") from tip to tip.

Since my truck is an extended cab with a 2-piece drive shaft, I'm wondering if the extra length will allow me to eliminate the short piece and run a standard driveshaft. I don't know enough about the dimensions of my driveshaft or the length that a T5 or T56 extends beyond the factory Mazda 5-speed to make a guess whether it's possible.

Anybody know someone that's done a Ranger conversion using the T56? I'd like to get an idea as to what is different between the T5 and T56 installation. Some things I can reasonably guess at, but there's always the "oh by the way" stories that follow right after the guy that says "It's simple and straight forward"

Thoughts?

Chris

[blk94xlt]

I don't know anything about the differences between the T5 and T56 transmissions but I do know that it is possible to install a one piece driveshaft. That is a fairly popular mod that people are making to their rangers with a stock engine. I have seen much more info on that in another ranger forum. If you change the spline and get it made to the right length it should work behind whichever transmission you choose.

[cgrey8]

blk,

I didn't know that. However it makes a lot of sense and seems like it would simplify things.

Is it just me or are there very few V8 conversions on extended cab Rangers? I can't recall a picture yet of a V8 converted Supercab. Other than weight distribution issues, is there any reason why that is?

__________________________


This is what Dave responded to me with in an email I sent before I started this thread...

I'm not heavily familiar with the TKO or 3550. From what another thread on Malcolm's site said, they are almost identical with the exception of input and output splines. I think they may have mentioned one other difference, but basically the same tranny.

All are the same basic transmission but do differ. The 3550 has the same output spline as the T-5 but uses the 26 count input spline as the GM. The TKO uses the larger output shaft, same as the C-6 Ford, 31T. Both use a unique bellhousing from the T-5. Think that the T-56 is the same as the TKO but with 6 speeds. The advantage of the 3550 and the TKO is the availablity of having three different gear shift locations to better fit your truck. Either one is just as easy to install a slave cylinder as the T-5 (see pictures I sent yesterday). The stock T-5 puts the shifter puts the shifter back from the normal position about 8", can cause problems unless you have bucket seat.

This is consistent with what I've heard from other threads on the issue. I just couldn't remember the specifics or the details.

Not sure about there being enough flat spot where your blue arrow shows but I would bet on it. Just in front of the blue arrow is the area where the clutch lever opening is in the bellhousing. Just in front of the opening is the hole on the face of the bellhousing where the clutch cable usually goes.

Going on appearance, it seems that the T56 bell is shorter than T5 ('93 and back) factory bell. If that's true, I assume they did that because the T56 is longer than the T5.

Doing the math and checking with an old bellhousing, the distance from the face of the bellhousing to the shifter is within 1/8" between the T-5 and the T-56

That would make sense if the T56 will directly replace a T5 in a Mustang. Being that I have a Supercab Ranger and I drive with the seat all the way back, there's plenty of room to cut a hole for the rear mounted shifter location. From the mount cover of the factory shifter, to the seat is about 13" or so. However to allow the seat to be let forward, I'd either need to apply a mid-mount solution or get buckets.

It appears the T56 has a mid-mount cover plate which would prove convenient and wouldn't require a mid-mount shifter kit. Just eyeballing the topview of the T56, it may be forward enough to use the factory shifter hole as is. Whatever modification it required (if any) wouldn't be much. At the same time, it shure is sportier having the shifter lower and closer to the seat.

Chris

[Dave]

Chris,
The best price I have seen for the T-56 w/bell housing is $1955. New Cobra spec T-5 for $1099 and uses all the standard Mustang bellhousing/clutch parts. You really shouldn't need a 6-speed if you are still building a torque motor. If you are willing to settle for the rear shifter location, I'd go with the T-5. Did find out that the T-56 does indeed come with different shifter locations. On the Tremec 3550, it cost an extra $200 for that option. More things to consider.
Dave

[cgrey8]

I was thinking about that. A wide ratio T56 with 3.27s would work fine, but to really take advantage of the 6th gear, I'd keep a 3.73:1 RE and get the even more expensive close ratio T56. This setup would give me a normal range of final ratios from 1-5 similar to a T5 with 3.27s, then an additional high speed gear (the 6th) for interstate driving.

The upsides are the extra gear, MUCH stronger tranny (650ft-lbs acc. D&D) for future engine builds, an easy mid-mount solution, and I may not have to crack open an RE to change out gears since 3.73s are pretty popular in 8.8" TractionLoks (aren't they?). That's a nice list of positives.

The downside is the Close Ratio T56 is around $2400, not $2000. The difference is about the same as a new set of ring-n-pinions and installation kit. But compared to the T5, it's still another grand.

I got some time before I have to act, but this is my thinking so far. As most of you know by now, I have a tendency to type almost everything I think, I just hope I don't bore too many people to death with my ramblings.

If I do decide to keep the GT40ps (as most of you are suggesting), and scrap the long-arm idea completely, that frees up a good $4000 to splurge.

Chris