My swap is killing me
Moderator: MalcolmV8
My swap is killing me
Since this is the only V8 ranger specific forum on the internet (it really is) I am choosing to vent here. The views expressed are those of my own and no animals will be harmed during this post.
My swap is killing me. I wish someone would just tell me it really can't be done and I would cut my losses now.
I am starting with a short cab short bed 2000 ranger with coil springs originally with a 2.5 4 cylinder and an automatic. WHY? Because I don't like the looks of an extended cab, I don't like the looks of a 7 foot bed or step sides (which is a short bed but I don't care I don't like the look). I like amazon green. I found a short cab short bed in amazon green, it just happened to be a 2000 with a 2.5 4 cylinder and an automatic.
So finally after over 20 years I had what I thought was a beginning of a V8 powered ranger I had wanted to do one for that long.
SO I looked at an article I found on another general ranger forum that said an explorer from a 96 through 2001 was a "plug and play" swap in a 98 to 2000 ranger.
COOL I'll go the easy route.
Turns out the article was for a 4WD (after all who would ever want a 2WD) and just about everything I bought was either wrong or not needed.
So I searched even more and found an article that said for a coil spring ranger I needed these mounting plates and to use 4.0 V6 mounts.
In searching for the plates I found the forum the guy was on is shut down but I did find blueprints for the plates on another site. Yay. Even clearly had marked the ford number for the motor mounts I needed YAY again.
YL5Z-6038-CA for drivers side and YL5Z-6038-CB for passenger side. Clear enough eh? Have no idea what I'm going to do with the 5.0 explorer mounts I bought already (because of the plug and play article) and figured out quickly they are the wrong angle. Oh well.
I searched on my dear e-bay, found countless CB's but not any CA-s with a picture that looked like the mount. The CB had a cross reference to anchor, but on their site no CA.
SO I contacted Anchor. "We have a direct replacement for the CB but never made one for the CA." ? It's the same vehicle! Oh well got one on the way off to find a CA.
I bought a CB from Anchor, it comes in and looks like the picture and fit the passenger side, stud, pin and all! Yay! So I bring it in my office and casually set it beside the original 2.5 mount I had torched a shock stud off destroying the shock and had to maul a sway bar link to get the mount removed. IT WAS THE SAME MOUNT. Either Anchor sent me the wrong one or the passenger side 4.0 explorer mount is identical to the ranger 2.5 passenger side mount.
Extensive e-bay searching turns up a guy who had a YL5Z-6038-CA in a box. I buy it. The box is an official ford box with the official ford number YL5Z-6038-CA. I get it, it turns out being the 5.0 mount for the explorer. ? Another one. This makes 3 new explorer mounts I have collected now and can't use one of them.
So I paid big bucks and bought one from an authorized ford dealer on e-bay. Or thats what they claimed, all the dealer sites I checked said obsolete and no more stock. I had it sent to me at 3 times the price of any other I had bought so far.
It comes in an official ford box with YL5Z-6038-CA on the outside. I open the box, and though the top looked correct the stud to pin distance is different from the old driver side ranger mount. As a matter of fact it fit the passenger side... so I compared it to the Anchor... IDENTICAL. By this time I'm having blood pressure spikes and wondering why I started this project at all.
Today I put the passenger side mount in, wallowed out the pin hole and put the driver side mount in thinking this must be "what they meant" in the swap sheet I have for the plates I bought.
I get to looking at the plates clearly marked passenger side and drivers side. The passenger side has a raised section on it that connects to the motor block and the passenger side is just a flat plate.
Curious, I put a straight edge on the mounts now attached to the frame. They were dead in line with each other. Then why was one plate with a raised portion making it just shy of a half inch higher than the other? I figured the motor must be offset in mount height so I measured with a depth caliper from the bottom where the oil pan bolts on to the holes the plates attach to and they are within like .020" of each other, well within machining error for a casting that large.
SO I put a half inch of washers under the drivers plate to bring it level with the other. The nut won't thread on the mount. So I put 1/4 on and was going to put 1/4 between the block and the plate amounting to the same half inch.
THEN I noticed something else, the slotted holes in the plates didn't seem to make sense since the driver mount is way toward the rear of the truck than the passenger mount. Looked like wrong direction. I couldn't have them on wrong the driver side plate has a notch to avoid the steering knuckle and the passenger side blueprint was a weldment and the way it was made it could only go one way unless the print I have is wrong.
SO we dropped the motor in and sure enough the driver side seems to line up right where it should and the passenger side would need to be slotted about 2 inches more to keep the motor from being at an angle.
That is the mount rant, 2 more things happened today where a melling high flow oil pump I bought was about .300" too tall to fit under my oil pan AND a brand new double roller timing chain and gear set that I paid extra for because it was a true double roller had the large chamfer on the wrong side of the crank gear making it ride up on the radius between the gear mount diameter and the journal diameter. I cut the right chamfer on the back instead of on the front where it was, put it on and the chain is looser than the old one I took off with 160,000 miles.
Not a good day.
My summary question is, does anyone know someone who has a 98 thru 2000 ranger, 2WD, RCSB, coil springs, originally with a 2.5 that has successfully planted a 5.0 out of an explorer in? I have thrown all the instructions away and are in auto-fab mode.
Thanks LOL.
My swap is killing me. I wish someone would just tell me it really can't be done and I would cut my losses now.
I am starting with a short cab short bed 2000 ranger with coil springs originally with a 2.5 4 cylinder and an automatic. WHY? Because I don't like the looks of an extended cab, I don't like the looks of a 7 foot bed or step sides (which is a short bed but I don't care I don't like the look). I like amazon green. I found a short cab short bed in amazon green, it just happened to be a 2000 with a 2.5 4 cylinder and an automatic.
So finally after over 20 years I had what I thought was a beginning of a V8 powered ranger I had wanted to do one for that long.
SO I looked at an article I found on another general ranger forum that said an explorer from a 96 through 2001 was a "plug and play" swap in a 98 to 2000 ranger.
COOL I'll go the easy route.
Turns out the article was for a 4WD (after all who would ever want a 2WD) and just about everything I bought was either wrong or not needed.
So I searched even more and found an article that said for a coil spring ranger I needed these mounting plates and to use 4.0 V6 mounts.
In searching for the plates I found the forum the guy was on is shut down but I did find blueprints for the plates on another site. Yay. Even clearly had marked the ford number for the motor mounts I needed YAY again.
YL5Z-6038-CA for drivers side and YL5Z-6038-CB for passenger side. Clear enough eh? Have no idea what I'm going to do with the 5.0 explorer mounts I bought already (because of the plug and play article) and figured out quickly they are the wrong angle. Oh well.
I searched on my dear e-bay, found countless CB's but not any CA-s with a picture that looked like the mount. The CB had a cross reference to anchor, but on their site no CA.
SO I contacted Anchor. "We have a direct replacement for the CB but never made one for the CA." ? It's the same vehicle! Oh well got one on the way off to find a CA.
I bought a CB from Anchor, it comes in and looks like the picture and fit the passenger side, stud, pin and all! Yay! So I bring it in my office and casually set it beside the original 2.5 mount I had torched a shock stud off destroying the shock and had to maul a sway bar link to get the mount removed. IT WAS THE SAME MOUNT. Either Anchor sent me the wrong one or the passenger side 4.0 explorer mount is identical to the ranger 2.5 passenger side mount.
Extensive e-bay searching turns up a guy who had a YL5Z-6038-CA in a box. I buy it. The box is an official ford box with the official ford number YL5Z-6038-CA. I get it, it turns out being the 5.0 mount for the explorer. ? Another one. This makes 3 new explorer mounts I have collected now and can't use one of them.
So I paid big bucks and bought one from an authorized ford dealer on e-bay. Or thats what they claimed, all the dealer sites I checked said obsolete and no more stock. I had it sent to me at 3 times the price of any other I had bought so far.
It comes in an official ford box with YL5Z-6038-CA on the outside. I open the box, and though the top looked correct the stud to pin distance is different from the old driver side ranger mount. As a matter of fact it fit the passenger side... so I compared it to the Anchor... IDENTICAL. By this time I'm having blood pressure spikes and wondering why I started this project at all.
Today I put the passenger side mount in, wallowed out the pin hole and put the driver side mount in thinking this must be "what they meant" in the swap sheet I have for the plates I bought.
I get to looking at the plates clearly marked passenger side and drivers side. The passenger side has a raised section on it that connects to the motor block and the passenger side is just a flat plate.
Curious, I put a straight edge on the mounts now attached to the frame. They were dead in line with each other. Then why was one plate with a raised portion making it just shy of a half inch higher than the other? I figured the motor must be offset in mount height so I measured with a depth caliper from the bottom where the oil pan bolts on to the holes the plates attach to and they are within like .020" of each other, well within machining error for a casting that large.
SO I put a half inch of washers under the drivers plate to bring it level with the other. The nut won't thread on the mount. So I put 1/4 on and was going to put 1/4 between the block and the plate amounting to the same half inch.
THEN I noticed something else, the slotted holes in the plates didn't seem to make sense since the driver mount is way toward the rear of the truck than the passenger mount. Looked like wrong direction. I couldn't have them on wrong the driver side plate has a notch to avoid the steering knuckle and the passenger side blueprint was a weldment and the way it was made it could only go one way unless the print I have is wrong.
SO we dropped the motor in and sure enough the driver side seems to line up right where it should and the passenger side would need to be slotted about 2 inches more to keep the motor from being at an angle.
That is the mount rant, 2 more things happened today where a melling high flow oil pump I bought was about .300" too tall to fit under my oil pan AND a brand new double roller timing chain and gear set that I paid extra for because it was a true double roller had the large chamfer on the wrong side of the crank gear making it ride up on the radius between the gear mount diameter and the journal diameter. I cut the right chamfer on the back instead of on the front where it was, put it on and the chain is looser than the old one I took off with 160,000 miles.
Not a good day.
My summary question is, does anyone know someone who has a 98 thru 2000 ranger, 2WD, RCSB, coil springs, originally with a 2.5 that has successfully planted a 5.0 out of an explorer in? I have thrown all the instructions away and are in auto-fab mode.
Thanks LOL.
- cgrey8
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Re: My swap is killing me
I don't know anybody with this setup. Although I do believe it has been done. What I don't recall is if it has only ever been done on 4wds. I believe 2wds have been V8 converted.
But yeah this experience of yours will test your patience and your budget. You have and rely far less on other people's research and just as much on your own. I was lucky in that I had Malcolm's Red Ranger project as a template for how to do mine...similar years, similar transmission setups, similar engine setups (i.e. injected), and similar cooling systems. There were some differences between his Red Ranger project and mine, but there were far more similarities than differences. So I guess I got off lucky...that and I bought my way out of a few issues since L&L made V8 engine mounts for my year Ranger. Don't get me wrong, I did have some issues. But I had enough in place, that the issues were a bit more obvious how to overcome.
You however are trail-blazing a setup that evidently isn't nearly as common. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with Rangers newer than 97. And 98 is when the design of the Rangers changed a good bit. I know it's been done. In fact, I think there's someone that's transplanted a 4.6L into a 98ish Ranger. At the time, it was absolutely unheard of and questioned whether it was even possible. That was a job and a half. But he got it in there.
Even once you get your engine mounting issues sorted out, it'll be interesting what tech issues you'll run into with things like the ABS, PATS, dash/speedo, etc. From what I understand, things were in flux during that era of both Ranger and Explorer. So while things were doable, there often are challenges getting everything to play nice together.
But yeah this experience of yours will test your patience and your budget. You have and rely far less on other people's research and just as much on your own. I was lucky in that I had Malcolm's Red Ranger project as a template for how to do mine...similar years, similar transmission setups, similar engine setups (i.e. injected), and similar cooling systems. There were some differences between his Red Ranger project and mine, but there were far more similarities than differences. So I guess I got off lucky...that and I bought my way out of a few issues since L&L made V8 engine mounts for my year Ranger. Don't get me wrong, I did have some issues. But I had enough in place, that the issues were a bit more obvious how to overcome.
You however are trail-blazing a setup that evidently isn't nearly as common. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with Rangers newer than 97. And 98 is when the design of the Rangers changed a good bit. I know it's been done. In fact, I think there's someone that's transplanted a 4.6L into a 98ish Ranger. At the time, it was absolutely unheard of and questioned whether it was even possible. That was a job and a half. But he got it in there.
Even once you get your engine mounting issues sorted out, it'll be interesting what tech issues you'll run into with things like the ABS, PATS, dash/speedo, etc. From what I understand, things were in flux during that era of both Ranger and Explorer. So while things were doable, there often are challenges getting everything to play nice together.
...Always Somethin'
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
Re: My swap is killing me
I don't know if there is a difference but they do make 2WD Explorers in those years. I would think they would work in a Ranger but don't know for absolute sure. Just a thought.
Dirt is for Farming....Asphalt is for Racing
85 Ranger 5.0, GTP Engine, Carbed, AOD, 7.5 3:45 rear gear(for now)
77 Mustang II 302, C4, 8" rearend 3:00 gears, 4 point roll bar
73 Mustang Convertible, Bone Stock, 48,000 original miles
91 F-250 5.8W(really needs a 460) 4X4
2000 Mustang 3.8 V6, Bone Stock
2011 Ford Fusion (Momma's hot rod)
85 Ranger 5.0, GTP Engine, Carbed, AOD, 7.5 3:45 rear gear(for now)
77 Mustang II 302, C4, 8" rearend 3:00 gears, 4 point roll bar
73 Mustang Convertible, Bone Stock, 48,000 original miles
91 F-250 5.8W(really needs a 460) 4X4
2000 Mustang 3.8 V6, Bone Stock
2011 Ford Fusion (Momma's hot rod)
Re: My swap is killing me
I bought a transmission for one but couldn't find an entire vehicle that was not 4WD. Would have been nice LOL.
So today I get both the old motor mounts out and start measuring.
It looks as if the lower height of the original driver side mount compliments the brackets perfectly. ?
So I did a more targeted search and found an article where someone had a 2WD coilspring ranger with a 2.5 and was asking questions.
He got a LOT of misleading info and eventually got it done. He said he used the special plates (same ones I bought) and dropped the motor RIGHT ON TOP OF THE 2.5 MOUNTS confirming what I was measuring today.
He also said he used the original cast aluminum oil pan and had enough clearance.
So...
I didn't have to buy 5 different motor mounts
I didn't have to buy shocks and sway links because I did not have to remove the old mounts.
I didn't have to buy the stamped steel oil pan
I didn't have to pay a helper to remove and replace all the things I didn't have to buy
But I do however have to remove the driver side mount again to put the 2.5 mount back on for the brackets to work.
When I get this done I plan on posting all my findings. It looks like if done properly it might be one of the easier swaps I just took the long way around.
Still have to find a timing chain LOL.
So today I get both the old motor mounts out and start measuring.
It looks as if the lower height of the original driver side mount compliments the brackets perfectly. ?
So I did a more targeted search and found an article where someone had a 2WD coilspring ranger with a 2.5 and was asking questions.
He got a LOT of misleading info and eventually got it done. He said he used the special plates (same ones I bought) and dropped the motor RIGHT ON TOP OF THE 2.5 MOUNTS confirming what I was measuring today.
He also said he used the original cast aluminum oil pan and had enough clearance.
So...
I didn't have to buy 5 different motor mounts
I didn't have to buy shocks and sway links because I did not have to remove the old mounts.
I didn't have to buy the stamped steel oil pan
I didn't have to pay a helper to remove and replace all the things I didn't have to buy
But I do however have to remove the driver side mount again to put the 2.5 mount back on for the brackets to work.
When I get this done I plan on posting all my findings. It looks like if done properly it might be one of the easier swaps I just took the long way around.
Still have to find a timing chain LOL.
Re: My swap is killing me
I just bought a Cloyes double roller from Summit Racing and love it. Part number clo-9-3535X9 I already have it on shortblock and it fits good. Also it's billet steel gears which is what I prefer. Hope this helps
Dirt is for Farming....Asphalt is for Racing
85 Ranger 5.0, GTP Engine, Carbed, AOD, 7.5 3:45 rear gear(for now)
77 Mustang II 302, C4, 8" rearend 3:00 gears, 4 point roll bar
73 Mustang Convertible, Bone Stock, 48,000 original miles
91 F-250 5.8W(really needs a 460) 4X4
2000 Mustang 3.8 V6, Bone Stock
2011 Ford Fusion (Momma's hot rod)
85 Ranger 5.0, GTP Engine, Carbed, AOD, 7.5 3:45 rear gear(for now)
77 Mustang II 302, C4, 8" rearend 3:00 gears, 4 point roll bar
73 Mustang Convertible, Bone Stock, 48,000 original miles
91 F-250 5.8W(really needs a 460) 4X4
2000 Mustang 3.8 V6, Bone Stock
2011 Ford Fusion (Momma's hot rod)
Re: My swap is killing me
Was going to buy one on your suggestion, the summit site says that 1997 it only fits 351? Mine is a 1997 5.0 from a mountaineer. They have others they say will fit..
Here is the one I bought:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-block-For ... Sw3ydV5kSN
I could have sworn from my past that the 351W and the 302 timing chains were interchangeable but looks like things might have changed in the last 20 years LOL.
AND heres a link to the video of how it fit my motor:
https://youtu.be/EeHF9JWb-RI
Here is the one I bought:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-block-For ... Sw3ydV5kSN
I could have sworn from my past that the 351W and the 302 timing chains were interchangeable but looks like things might have changed in the last 20 years LOL.
AND heres a link to the video of how it fit my motor:
https://youtu.be/EeHF9JWb-RI
Re: My swap is killing me
me too that's why I recommended it, good thing you caught it. It actually said it only went up to 88 on the 302, seems strange to me.
Dirt is for Farming....Asphalt is for Racing
85 Ranger 5.0, GTP Engine, Carbed, AOD, 7.5 3:45 rear gear(for now)
77 Mustang II 302, C4, 8" rearend 3:00 gears, 4 point roll bar
73 Mustang Convertible, Bone Stock, 48,000 original miles
91 F-250 5.8W(really needs a 460) 4X4
2000 Mustang 3.8 V6, Bone Stock
2011 Ford Fusion (Momma's hot rod)
85 Ranger 5.0, GTP Engine, Carbed, AOD, 7.5 3:45 rear gear(for now)
77 Mustang II 302, C4, 8" rearend 3:00 gears, 4 point roll bar
73 Mustang Convertible, Bone Stock, 48,000 original miles
91 F-250 5.8W(really needs a 460) 4X4
2000 Mustang 3.8 V6, Bone Stock
2011 Ford Fusion (Momma's hot rod)
Re: My swap is killing me
Bought a Cloyes but went simple and got a stock replacement C3206.
I just want to get the thing together and drive it.
This is one of two projects, the minute it gets on the road I'm buying a 4WD version and starting that. I already told my wife I'm collecting rangers from now till the day I pass (or she kills me LOL).
I was a little worried about EPA regulations being passed making it impossible to build vehicles like this even in Ohio where there is no smog checks. I don't have to worry any more![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
I just want to get the thing together and drive it.
This is one of two projects, the minute it gets on the road I'm buying a 4WD version and starting that. I already told my wife I'm collecting rangers from now till the day I pass (or she kills me LOL).
I was a little worried about EPA regulations being passed making it impossible to build vehicles like this even in Ohio where there is no smog checks. I don't have to worry any more
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Re: My swap is killing me
Hey Jamman you ever go to the big all Ford swap meet that is in Columbus the Saturday after Thanksgiving. My in-laws live in Dayton area and me and my son are thinking about going.
Dirt is for Farming....Asphalt is for Racing
85 Ranger 5.0, GTP Engine, Carbed, AOD, 7.5 3:45 rear gear(for now)
77 Mustang II 302, C4, 8" rearend 3:00 gears, 4 point roll bar
73 Mustang Convertible, Bone Stock, 48,000 original miles
91 F-250 5.8W(really needs a 460) 4X4
2000 Mustang 3.8 V6, Bone Stock
2011 Ford Fusion (Momma's hot rod)
85 Ranger 5.0, GTP Engine, Carbed, AOD, 7.5 3:45 rear gear(for now)
77 Mustang II 302, C4, 8" rearend 3:00 gears, 4 point roll bar
73 Mustang Convertible, Bone Stock, 48,000 original miles
91 F-250 5.8W(really needs a 460) 4X4
2000 Mustang 3.8 V6, Bone Stock
2011 Ford Fusion (Momma's hot rod)
Re: My swap is killing me
Looks like a good time!
I'll admit I didn't know about it till you said something. I plan on working on my Ranger that saturday but I should be able to make it there for a while any way.
I'll let you know if I'm going to be there perhaps we can say hi![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
I'm not taking any cash though LOL I don't trust me.
I'll admit I didn't know about it till you said something. I plan on working on my Ranger that saturday but I should be able to make it there for a while any way.
I'll let you know if I'm going to be there perhaps we can say hi
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
I'm not taking any cash though LOL I don't trust me.
Re: My swap is killing me
We are not 100% we are even going yet, like I said him and I have always wanted to go so we are kicking it around. Will let you know if we do so maybe we could put a face to the name.
Dirt is for Farming....Asphalt is for Racing
85 Ranger 5.0, GTP Engine, Carbed, AOD, 7.5 3:45 rear gear(for now)
77 Mustang II 302, C4, 8" rearend 3:00 gears, 4 point roll bar
73 Mustang Convertible, Bone Stock, 48,000 original miles
91 F-250 5.8W(really needs a 460) 4X4
2000 Mustang 3.8 V6, Bone Stock
2011 Ford Fusion (Momma's hot rod)
85 Ranger 5.0, GTP Engine, Carbed, AOD, 7.5 3:45 rear gear(for now)
77 Mustang II 302, C4, 8" rearend 3:00 gears, 4 point roll bar
73 Mustang Convertible, Bone Stock, 48,000 original miles
91 F-250 5.8W(really needs a 460) 4X4
2000 Mustang 3.8 V6, Bone Stock
2011 Ford Fusion (Momma's hot rod)
Re: My swap is killing me
Hey Jamman check your private messages
Dirt is for Farming....Asphalt is for Racing
85 Ranger 5.0, GTP Engine, Carbed, AOD, 7.5 3:45 rear gear(for now)
77 Mustang II 302, C4, 8" rearend 3:00 gears, 4 point roll bar
73 Mustang Convertible, Bone Stock, 48,000 original miles
91 F-250 5.8W(really needs a 460) 4X4
2000 Mustang 3.8 V6, Bone Stock
2011 Ford Fusion (Momma's hot rod)
85 Ranger 5.0, GTP Engine, Carbed, AOD, 7.5 3:45 rear gear(for now)
77 Mustang II 302, C4, 8" rearend 3:00 gears, 4 point roll bar
73 Mustang Convertible, Bone Stock, 48,000 original miles
91 F-250 5.8W(really needs a 460) 4X4
2000 Mustang 3.8 V6, Bone Stock
2011 Ford Fusion (Momma's hot rod)