first swap

[pdog]

Hello fellas, been reading threads for a while and just havent found the answers Im looking for, so here goes: I have an 84 Ranger 4x4 lwb w/2.8 (blown) and 5sp. with p/s and p/b, want to go 302 roller and a/t with the 2d gen dash so I can have shifter on column. The questions are: 1- will this dash be feasable? can i use AOD or need C-5? if I use 2" body lift and raise engine 1" to avoid frame and heater box(factory non a/c) mods, what stock type headers/manifolds will work? dont want injection, just 2v and a/t. Daily driver w/ 31x10.50 a/t tires in normal use. Any help would be very appreciated. Do have small budget and 302 roller, possibly trans, dont know yet. Thanks guys!

[cgrey8]

You said small budget and 4x4 in the same post. Good luck with that. Although it may be possible.

My guess is your best bet is to find something that is already closely setup to what you are trying to do such as the engine, trans, and xfer from an F150 with a 302. Rip off all the EFI stuff, put a carb intake, and run a vac-advance dizzy. Don't overdo the carb. A 500-550cfm carb is MORE than plenty for a near-stock engine. If you have it in the budget, replace the cam with something mild. If you'll also be replacing the valve springs & retainers, then that opens up some of your possibilities for cams. But if you need to stick as close to the bare essentials as possible, then you need an RM Comp special grind cam made specifically to replace the crap-stick that comes with F150s.

The catch here may be that the F150s that had roller cams may also be F150s with electronic AODEs/E4OD transmissions. To find a non-electronic trans F150 setup, you may wind up with a flat-tappet engine. The good news is that even non-roller 302s are capable of being converted to roller as long as the block is newer than about 85. The lifter bores and the valley are the same casting as roller blocks, they just need to be drilled-n-tapped for the spider. And of course, you'll have to get on eBay looking for some stock roller lifters and spider. There's a thread around here showing a guy that did this to a E-series van 302 that he transplanted into a Ranger. It was pretty straight forward.

Headers, well any header can be made to work with a little frame-notching. I think the best fit are Tri-Y headers. But I don't know how available or affordable those are nor how well they work with 4x4 and automatic setups. This is a place to let the budget keep you with stock cast iron manifolds if the choice is headers or cam, choose cam especially if the donor block is from an F150. Those were crap cams beggin' to be upgraded to something decent. If the 302 is an HO motor, then a set of used 1.7RRs from eBay with the stock cam is probably cheaper than replacing it.

[Chris]

the base 302 cam that is found in non H.O. engines before about 95 were all basically the same, regardless of truck or car. Ford made minor changes to the grind then changed the part number. My experience those subtle grind changes made no change on power output of the cam. The base 302 cam was intended for heavier cars and trucks, therefore produced more low rpm torque. Also, a friend of mine is goofing around with a 1994 F150, we retarded the stock cam 8*. According to the engine simulator, the truck cam actually made more torque and had a tad more high rpm power than the H.O cam. In the simulation we used the stock E7 port flow and valve size.

[cgrey8]

You are probably right when doing that comparison. The HO cam is a higher RPM cam. Stock non-HO cams and truck roller cams are not. None of the stock cams were optimized for much of anything except being just enough to sell the car, meet emissions, and get the engine through the warranty. Even the 93-95 Cobra cam falls into this category, however I can say of all of Ford's stock Windsor roller cams, the Cobra cam with 1.7RRs is probably the best for optimizing both torque and performance.

Another thing I've never understood is the crappy retainers Ford used. They are thick and heavy. Aftermarket single-piece retainers are lighter and thinner which is a win-win all the way around. I don't see how Ford's stock retainers are cheaper or better in any way. But I could be wrong. I'm just waiting for someone to suggest in what way they are better.

[Chris]

I'm with you on the retainers. I don't quite understand why Ford used a multi-piece valve retainer. Seems like a thinner, lighter one piece unit would have been more feasible. Maybe due to machining costs????

[pdog]

OK Let me be a bit clearer. I have the 302 roller, waiting on word for trans. I put a small trailer on it with the 2.8 and it almost stopped when a semi passed in opposite direction. Im only looking for more power, but not gobs. I want to drive e-day to/fro work (44mi) and IF I need to pull a trailer, I dont want to feel like its a mobile home. No muddin/street/strip etc.. Just feasable and functionable.Thetrans hold-up is to be determined by what I can reasonably use ie: c-5/aod.. Dont want any extra electronics such as AODE. Dont plan to make any more than needed mods. REALLY dont want to cut/notch frame. No HP build-up etc.. Just something usable. I understand about the axles/driveshaft weaknesses and such. The motor I have is high milage, but thats fine. Will F-150 t-case bolt to existng d-shafts? Its the little things Im not sure of. ASE tech for about 17yrs, so I have a good understanding of HOW it will work, just not IF these items are compatible. Thanks much for the help.

[cgrey8]

You need a trans/Xfer case that are made to work together for sure. As for the V8, yeah any V8 in 1/2 way decent working condition is going to be better than the 2.8L. So even if you do no mods, you'll be getting gains. However if there are chances for easy gains, the best time to take advantage of them is during the swap. So things like headers are an easy 10hp upgrade as long as you can get the headers for cheap enough.

Frame notching sounds scarey, but it's not. It's just to make clearance for the passenger side exhaust pipe to land on the header. Most of the time, you take a cutter to the frame and notch out .5-.75"...just enough to get the exhaust pipe onto the header. But there are headers that can be used that avoid the need for that. But those headers are generally more expensive. Since this is a budget build, I'll assume you'll just reuse the stock manifolds and that should be OK for your intentions.

The T-case will need a custom driveshaft made up since neither the F150 nor Ranger from driveshaft will likely work. Take pieces from the F150 and Ranger shaft to make what you need. Then get it shortened at a driveshaft shop assuming it'll need it (most likely it will). The driveshaft going to the rear will likely need mods too. There are a few people here that have gotten away with reusing their stock driveshaft with no mods, but at this point in the swap, budget assuming you will need to visit the driveshaft shop for the rear driveshaft as well.

If later you decide you want to do mods, then that's always an option. It's much easier to do mods once you've gotten the truck setup for the V8 anyway. That's exactly what I did. I got my stock Explorer 302 into the truck and drove it mostly as a proof of concept that I could do it. And as others here on the site warned me would happen, I decided I wanted more. So now I'm deep in the throws of building a 331 stroker (high torque, not high HP). In fact, I need to call the machine shop and see if it'll be done this week. Because it's predicted to rain today and tomorrow, I probably won't pick it up even if it is ready. Freshly machined cast iron rusts like you wouldn't believe.

[plowboy34]

If it's going to be a daily driver I would find an AOD/Transfer case together. You will be much happier in the long run. There is no way I would build a daily driver without a 5sp or OD if automatic. Even if you have to pay a little extra you will get your money back in fuel mileage in a hurry. Plus less wear and tear on your engine.

[pdog]

Anyone have an answer to the dash swap? Will colomn shift work w/V8? I recently saw a first body (83-88 1/2) with a third body (93-98) dash complete with dual airbags and a/c and it all worked. My hope is that when its finished, I can open the hood and someone will say "I didnt know Ford put those in these." I want it to look factory, thats partly why I dont want the electronics and such. It should look like it would have in 1984. I will even go with the grey engine color even though I love Ford Blue, stock manifolds and 2v carb and all. Is it going to be necessary to raise the engine to gain frame clearance for exh? Again, DONT want to cut/notch frame.I wont start this project until all homework is done, already did that before. This way I know exactly where the wall is so I dont get against it. Also know that this wont be a walk in the park either. All advice and help is greatly appreciated, especially by the wife because it keeps cost and headaches down.