Engine & Trans questions, and hello :)

usmcrp1044 · Post by **usmcrp1044** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:45 pm

Hi everyone, I'm obviously new here. love the site... lots of info

I'm just starting to build a Ranger. Well, starting to gather parts that is. What I want to build is a fun street truck. I by no means want a balls out race truck but want something that lets people know it isnt stock, and is of course fun to cruise around in and race anyone willing.

Anyways, onto the parts thing...

I just bought a running low miles 5.0 out of an 89 f-150 for $400. The guy I bought it from said it was rebuilt about 3,000 miles ago. He wasnt sure what was done and said that he bought it from a co-worker. The truck originally belonged to the co-workers neighbor who had it rebuilt. The story sounds like BS but the guy that I bought the motor from was extremely nice and seemed like a no bs kinda guy after talking to him for about an hour.

Anyways, I'm trying to find out some stuff

The motor currently is EFI, but I would like to run a carb. What intake do you guys suggest? hell, even what carb? Will the current heads work with a different intake? I dont really know what they are. Anything else I should know about it? the motor has a rear sump pan, everything I've read says that it will work... it will right?

Also, another problem is a transmission. I was planning on getting a c4 and going the automatic route but the guy I bought the engine from gave me the transmission to. It's a t5 with the transfer case still attached. I realize my original plan was an automatic but standards are allota fun to drive

The guy said that the transmission wanted to pop out of reverse but holding your hand on the shifter kept it in gear fine. Anyone have any ideas what the problem could be? Also, the transfer case is still attached. I dont want 4wd of course so what has to be done to the trans after seperating the transfer case, is the tail shaft the same or would I need to change that? What would have to be done to the transmission before putting signifigant horsepower through it? I dont plan on doing much to the motor now but in the future I would like to run 4-500 hp and not worry about blowing transmission parts all over the road.

Anyway, getting an engine and trans setup are my two main concerns for now. I havent found the Ranger I'm looking for yet but I'll get that in time

Any suggestions you guys have for my trans setup is very appreciated. Again, the site is awesome and when/if this project gets into high gear, I'm sure I'll be asking for alot of help. Thanks for reading.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:23 pm

Welcome!
For the short term, go with any dual plane carb manifold and a 600 cfm carb (while your at it, ditch the stock cam, no performance). The heads will work will any intake. You'll need the dual sump pan/pickout found on the Mustangs, Crown Vic's and others, very common junk yard item. Sell that trans(should be the M5R2 Mazda and x-fer case) and get the trans that in the end you will want to use, auto or manual. A manual to do 400/500 hp is going to cost you big time. A C-4 can take a lot of power but you lose the OD. I guess the best thing is to get what you will really want in the long run. A 300/350 hp Ranger is a really good runner as it is. Over that, going to cost more for all the upgrades
Dave

usmcrp1044 · Post by **usmcrp1044** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:35 pm

thanks alot. I was planning on changing the cam anyways.... lookin for something with a long duration just to give a cool lumpy sound. Any suggestions for that would be cool to.

I'm 18 so moneys kinda an issue. I plan on doin as much as I can on my own and checkin out the junk yard alot. And are you sure a rear sump pan wont work? I've read some stuff sayin it would.

Anything else you know about the transmission and transfer case would be cool so I can sell it and get what it's worth. I guess I'll go with the c4.... time to find one of them for a decent price

cgrey8 · Post by **cgrey8** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:26 am

The 302s that came in F150s weren't exactly performance motors, so putting a big duration cam in it might just loose you some performance that you'd have if you chose a milder cam. You could always go with the tried-n-true E303 although I'm personally not a fan of that cam. But it does have 1 redeeming attraction and that is it works with most stock equipment including the valve springs.

However if you don't mind replacing the stock springs and retainers, you can run a much more reasonable cam for a truck application that will give you way more off-idle torque than the E303 will and will keep you pulling into the 5000RPM range. Of all the cams I've ever researched, only 1 aftermarket cam seems to fit the bill for doing this, and doing it well across the RPM range and that's the Crane PowerMax 2020 (Pn 444211). There are other cams that come close, and are better at their application but this cam is a modest duration with a VERY high lift. It's not a lopey cam, but the lift makes up for it giving you as much as the heads can support.

But I wouldn't bother putting much into those stock heads. Springs & retainers would be the most I'd mess with. If you put too much into them, you end up spending nearly as much on the heads as you could've spent buying aftermarket cast iron heads that outflow any stock iron head.

And of course any other mods you do such as replacing the Exhaust Manifolds with some headers will help. You can get Ranger swap headers that fit with no issue but are pricey. You can get Mustang headers and notch the frame for clearance. Or you can get the Tri-Y headers. I would recommend the Tri-Ys since they have a smaller pipe and are longer which will augment that Crane cam's intentions giving you even more torque.

As Dave said, go with a dual plane aftermarket intake. That again is a torque-building intake that is much easier to tune for. Edelbrock seems to be the defacto standard that most everybody can agree is a decent intake. Now of Edelbrock dual plane options, I have no clue which is the best.

I also agree with Dave's suggestion on the tranny. That's not likely a T5 you have. It's probably that M5R2 tranny which doesn't have a 2wd conversion, at least not that I'm aware of. I could be wrong on that. If this is going to be a daily driven vehicle, do yourself a favor and do what it takes to get an OD tranny in there. Stock T5s come a dime a dozen used. AODs will be a little more, but will have a lot more headroom for future mods.

A Carbed stock motor, even with that cam, won't need much more than a 500cfm carb. Don't fall into the typical trap most people fall into here and overdo your carb. Most people think that putting a big huge 650cfm carb on the motor is somehow going to make the motor stronger. It doesn't. The motor will only take what it can take regardless of the carb size. However what will happen with a carb that's too big is you'll end up with a truck that only wants to run right once you get it wide open and runs like crap at cruising loads including trying to get the engine up to wide open. There's nothing more embarrassing than punching it at a light just to have the engine conk out and leave you sitting there at a green light with a now flooded out motor. So again, do yourself a favor and limit your carb size to something under 550cfm for a near-stock motor.

Another tidbit about carbs, the best carbs to run for a daily driver are the ones that have the smaller primary bores and larger secondaries. The smaller primaries are like having the benefits of a super small carb when you don't need more (i.e. cruising around). But when you need to open it up, you have the secondaries there to flush the toilet. This type of carb typically gets better gas mileage too. But I wouldn't pay a massive amount extra for it. As for which carb is best? I don't know. Holley is a good name, but I know the Carter and Edelbrock carbs are also very good and I've heard are actually better bolt-ons than Holley for a street application. That's just what I've heard. I have no clue what the truth in that is.

As for future mods, 500hp is EXPENSIVE to build. You are talking big heads, big intake, stroked, and supercharged. And if you attempt that with a carb, this will suddenly become a track-only vehicle. You could pull this off with an EFI system. Plenty of guys over on the EECTuning.org site drive 400+hp motors as daily drivers. Although for a Ranger application, 300hp is more reasonable. You have to remember that a Ranger is still a truck. So unless you invest in some serious mods like 4-links/traction bars, rearend lockers, and redistribute the weight to the bed OR are building an AWD setup, trying to get more than 300hp to the road is going to be difficult and will be pretty much impossible in 1st gear regardless of what you do to a 2wd truck. But 300hp is quite doable with only a few mods to a stock motor. Replace the heads with some TFS or AFR heads, and you'll be on your way to 300hp. If you choose your cam, intake, and headers well now, then those will augment this future mod. For even more gains, you could stroke the motor to a 331 or 347. But once you start going over about 350hp, suddenly none of the power adder mods you choose now will be enough. For instance, the Tri-Y headers, Crane 2020 cam, 500cfm carb, and dual plane intake would not be choices I'd envision for a 400hp motor. There's no easy "route" to gradually building a 400+hp motor while optimizing what you currently have. So I would say for now, if you are picking parts for future mods, plan for no more than 300hp and size your parts for that. And in the future once you get that 300hp motor and decide it isn't enough, build another motor for that and sell the 300hp motor to someone looking for a nice working package with truly "matched" parts.

usmcrp1044 · Post by **usmcrp1044** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:50 am

wow, thanks

appreciate all the info.

I dont really plan for this truck to be a 'daily driver' but instead something to take out on the weekends just to show it off.

What you explained about getting this motor said and building another one is pretty much exactly what I was planning to do. I want to have a 302Ranger, it doesnt have to be a 10 second truck but maybe just sound cool and have a little more kick than a 4.0

Rather than building up the motor now I'd rather put abit more money into the transmission, possibly find an explorer rear end, make my own traction bars and the like.

Another questions I forgot to ask... what Rangers come with the 8.8" rear end? my 94 4wd 4.0 looks like it has it, but I dont really care enough to take off the differential cover.

Thanks for all the help....

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:08 am

If you have the stock 4.0, it will have the 8.8. You could check the stamped steel tag bolted to the rear end or check the data plate on the door jamb for the axle code number. The 7.5 and 8.8 also have a different shape to the removable cover.
Dave

usmcrp1044 · Post by **usmcrp1044** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:40 am

ok cool, thats not the truck I plan on putting the 5.0 in....

I've been looking for a Ranger but am abit picky on what I want. Mainly a 93-94 single cab short bed. Possibly the 88-92 style single cab short bed if it was in decent shape.

I live in the northeast so finding a truck thats 15+ years old that hasnt rotted out yet isnt too easy. I plan on calling local junkyards to see what theyve got sometime soon. I'd rather get my motor and trans together before I buy the truck so if for whatever reason I back out of the project I could get back alot of the money I put into it.

I had an AOD at one point, but I bought it for $75 and didnt know much about it. When I looked into rebuild/shift kits, I found about all the problems with it and heard nothing good about them. So that made me choose a c4.
Anyways, I dont need overdrive... and if I do need to take a highway, I had a plan for that.
I plan on running 3.73 gears with 30" tall rear tires probably. How much would the gearing change, and highway driveability with a 33" rear tire? or maybe abit bigger....

cgrey8 · Post by **cgrey8** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:38 am

usmcrp1044 wrote:...I had an AOD at one point, but I bought it for $75 and didnt know much about it. When I looked into rebuild/shift kits, I found about all the problems with it and heard nothing good about them. So that made me choose a c4...

The AOD gets a bad reputation because there were so many different builds of it, from pathetically weak to pretty strong right from the factory. Ford designed the internals of that tranny to satisfy 4-bangers as well as V8s and a number of combinations in between. The most interesting thing is the strongest AOD from Ford wasn't put behind a V8. It was put behind the supercharged 3.8L V6 that came in the Thunderbirds. Point is, you can build an AOD to stay together. The catch is, you have to build them to be better...and of course that takes money.

Adam McLaughlin · Post by **Adam McLaughlin** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:40 am

I have the Crane Cam that Chris is talking about. I like it well enough to recommend it to someone else.

I also vote that you stick with EFI for more reasons than I can list here.

As for the transmission, I run an AOD behind my 5.8L in my 1992 Ranger. I bought the trans from the Junkyard in 2002, installed a shift kit and a 2200 RPM stall converter, and ran it. The trans is still in my truck today, and I haven't even changed the fluid.

I find that the AOD is a very, very durable transmission. It's design originated with the FMX which was a heavy, although very strong 3 speed transmission.

Next week I am going to try a home-brew valve body mod by Dan Nicolson in Mo. to make second gear longer. While I am there, I will install the Sonnax Super Hold O.D. Servo, and finally change the fluid. Other than that, the pan has never been off my AOD. I would recomend the AOD / 4R70W to anyone interested.

Adam

usmcrp1044 · Post by **usmcrp1044** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:19 am

thanks alot

Oh well, kinda regret gettin rid of the aod but oh well. Still plan on going with a c4. I want to go carburated just for the simplicity of it, I dont like having to deal with computers and miles of wires. Thanks for the suggestions though... keep em coming

still tryin to pick a cam.

usmcrp1044 · Post by **usmcrp1044** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:00 am

Ok, I think I might have found a C4. Does anyone have any experience rebuilding them? Is it something I could do myself?

What rebuild/shift kits do you guys suggest?

gorgo · Post by **gorgo** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:28 am

i bought a dvd from bad shoe production on rebuilding my c4. it was 35 bucks i think and it came with a dvd on the 8.8 rebuild too.http://www.badshoeproductions.com/ i see he charges 50 bucks for the two now. i bought mine a couple of years ago.

v8ranger · Post by **v8ranger** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:25 am

I dont know what state you live in but keep in mind when your looking to buy a truck for your swap. Will it pass state inspection with the mods??? I know in upsate NY where im at that anything 96 and newer has to have the computer to be pluged into for the inspection. A friend of mine has a 97 Ranger that he put a Mountaineer 5.0 in it with all the fuel injection,comp,ect...... and he cant get it to pass inspection, to many codes. And he said when they pluged into the system it cam up as a Moutaineer and its a Ranger, its now for sale as he doesnt have the time to mess with it anymore. I dont know if that was an issue also. Good luck

usmcrp1044 · Post by **usmcrp1044** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:05 pm

yeah, I considered that v8ranger. I'm looking for a pre-96 (1995 or older) for my swap. Thanks for the heads up though.