OK, the new cam/convertor combo made the stroker ranger so much more fun to drive. Fun enough that withen 100 miles I now have lost 3rd and 4th gear in the 4R70W. It is either the direct clutch pack or shift solenoid #2. Shift solenoid #2 has continuity. I guess my next step is to check the pressure tap for the direct clutch and see if I get any pressure when it tries for 3rd.
Anyone know of any common direct clutch failures? I don't think I smoked it, I never noticed any sign of slippage. It died when passing a poky coworker. Punched it, droped from 4th into 2nd, never upshifted from there. Limped to work in manual 2nd, found I could limp it home with OD off by zinging it in 2nd and letting it coast. Reverse is fine, first is fine. 2nd is fine. 3rd (OD off) is still 2nd with no engine braking. 4th gear appears to completely nuetral out (maybe 1st with no engine braking).
Dead and parked
Moderator: MalcolmV8
-
cjcnomor4
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:43 pm
- SM: No
- Location: Spring Hill, FL (1 hour N of Tampa)
does it neutral into 3rd or not shift at all? I had a mustang with an AOD that tore up the intermediate one-way in almost the same way. heres a chart from a 1999 explorer 4r70w.
Shift Concerns: 2-3 Shift (Automatic) Possible Component Reference/Action
221 — ELECTRICAL ROUTINE
Powertrain Control System
· Electrical inputs/outputs, vehicle wiring harnesses, PCM, shift solenoids, OSS
· Run Self-Test. Refer to Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual for diagnosis and testing of the Powertrain Control System. Perform Pinpoint Tests A and F using Transmission Tester. Repair as required. Clear DTCs, road test and rerun Self-Test.
321 — HYDRAULIC/MECHANICAL ROUTINE
Shift Linkage
· Damaged or misadjusted
· Inspect and repair as required. Verify transmission shift cable adjustment. Refer to Section 307-05. Adjust transmission shift cable as necessary. After repairing transmission shift cable, verify that the digital TR sensor is properly adjusted. Refer to in this section. Adjust the digital TR sensor as necessary.
Improper Pressures
· Direct clutch pressure
· Check pressure at direct clutch tap; refer to Line Pressure Chart for specifications. If not OK, check the main controls.
Main Controls
· 2-3 shift valve, check ball No. 9 or No. 3, solenoid pressure regulator valve, 2-3 modulator valve, damaged or assembled incorrectly
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Bolts not tightened to specifications
· Tighten bolts to specifications.
· Shift solenoid (SSB) malfunction
· Activate solenoid using transmission tester. If solenoid operation cannot be felt when placing hand on solenoid, replace solenoid. Inspect O-rings for damage. Repair as required.
· Gaskets damaged
· Inspect for damage and replace.
· Output shaft seals damaged or cup plug leaking or missing
· Inspect for damage and repair as required.
· 2-3 accumulator damaged or stuck
· Inspect piston seal and bore for damage. Repair as required.
· Solenoid screen (in main control) blocked or damaged
· Clean or replace screen.
Intermediate One-Way Clutch Assembly
· Not overrunning or damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
Output Shaft
· Seal rings damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Cup plug damaged or missing
Direct Clutch Assembly
· Seals or piston damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Friction elements worn or damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Check ball not seating
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Return spring assembly damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
Case
· Output shaft rear seals leaking or damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required. Inspect case for damaged seal area. If damaged, replace the case.
Shift Concerns: 3-4 Shift (Automatic) Possible Component Reference/Action
222 — ELECTRICAL ROUTINE
Powertrain Control System
· Electrical inputs/outputs, vehicle wiring harnesses, PCM, shift solenoids, OSS, transmission control switch (TCS)
· Run Self-Test. Refer to Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual for diagnosis and testing of the Powertrain Control System. Perform Pinpoint Tests A and F using Transmission Tester. Repair as required. Clear DTCs, road test and rerun Self-Test.
322 — HYDRAULIC/MECHANICAL ROUTINE
Shift Linkage, Digital TR Sensor
· Damaged or misadjusted
· Inspect and repair as required. Verify transmission shift cable adjustment; refer to Section 307-05. Adjust transmission shift cable as necessary. After repairing transmission shift cable, verify that the digital TR sensor is properly adjusted; refer to Digital Transmission Range (TR) Sensor in this section. Adjust the digital TR sensor as necessary.
Improper Pressures
· Forward clutch pressure, direct clutch pressure, line pressure
· Check line, direct and forward clutch pressures at appropriate taps; refer to Line Pressure Chart for specifications. If pressures are out of specification, check main controls.
Main Controls
· 3-4 shift valve, solenoid pressure regulator valve, OD servo regulator, 3-4 capacity modulator valve, 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves stuck, damaged or assembled incorrectly
· Inspect for damaged. Repair as required.
· Bolts not tightened to specifications
· Tighten bolts to specifications.
· SSA or SSB malfunction
· Activate solenoid using transmission tester. If solenoid operation cannot be felt when placing hand on solenoid, replace solenoid. Inspect O-rings for damage. Repair as required.
· Gaskets damaged
· Inspect for damage and replace.
· OD servo rod and piston cushion spring or seals damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· No. 2, No. 4, No. 7 and No. 9 check balls damaged or missing
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Solenoid screen (in main control) blocked or damaged
· Clean or replace screen.
Pump
· Porosity/cross leaks, balls missing, damaged or leaking
· Inspect for porosity/leaks, balls missing. Replace pump as required.
· Gaskets damaged
· Inspect for damage. Replace as required.
OD Band
· OD band and reverse clutch drum assembly damaged, worn or assembled incorrectly
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Intermediate one-way clutch assembly damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
Forward Clutch Assembly
· Seals or piston damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Friction elements worn or damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Check ball stuck, damaged or not seating properly
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
Input Shaft
· Seals damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
Shift Concerns: 2-3 Shift (Automatic) Possible Component Reference/Action
221 — ELECTRICAL ROUTINE
Powertrain Control System
· Electrical inputs/outputs, vehicle wiring harnesses, PCM, shift solenoids, OSS
· Run Self-Test. Refer to Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual for diagnosis and testing of the Powertrain Control System. Perform Pinpoint Tests A and F using Transmission Tester. Repair as required. Clear DTCs, road test and rerun Self-Test.
321 — HYDRAULIC/MECHANICAL ROUTINE
Shift Linkage
· Damaged or misadjusted
· Inspect and repair as required. Verify transmission shift cable adjustment. Refer to Section 307-05. Adjust transmission shift cable as necessary. After repairing transmission shift cable, verify that the digital TR sensor is properly adjusted. Refer to in this section. Adjust the digital TR sensor as necessary.
Improper Pressures
· Direct clutch pressure
· Check pressure at direct clutch tap; refer to Line Pressure Chart for specifications. If not OK, check the main controls.
Main Controls
· 2-3 shift valve, check ball No. 9 or No. 3, solenoid pressure regulator valve, 2-3 modulator valve, damaged or assembled incorrectly
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Bolts not tightened to specifications
· Tighten bolts to specifications.
· Shift solenoid (SSB) malfunction
· Activate solenoid using transmission tester. If solenoid operation cannot be felt when placing hand on solenoid, replace solenoid. Inspect O-rings for damage. Repair as required.
· Gaskets damaged
· Inspect for damage and replace.
· Output shaft seals damaged or cup plug leaking or missing
· Inspect for damage and repair as required.
· 2-3 accumulator damaged or stuck
· Inspect piston seal and bore for damage. Repair as required.
· Solenoid screen (in main control) blocked or damaged
· Clean or replace screen.
Intermediate One-Way Clutch Assembly
· Not overrunning or damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
Output Shaft
· Seal rings damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Cup plug damaged or missing
Direct Clutch Assembly
· Seals or piston damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Friction elements worn or damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Check ball not seating
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Return spring assembly damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
Case
· Output shaft rear seals leaking or damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required. Inspect case for damaged seal area. If damaged, replace the case.
Shift Concerns: 3-4 Shift (Automatic) Possible Component Reference/Action
222 — ELECTRICAL ROUTINE
Powertrain Control System
· Electrical inputs/outputs, vehicle wiring harnesses, PCM, shift solenoids, OSS, transmission control switch (TCS)
· Run Self-Test. Refer to Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual for diagnosis and testing of the Powertrain Control System. Perform Pinpoint Tests A and F using Transmission Tester. Repair as required. Clear DTCs, road test and rerun Self-Test.
322 — HYDRAULIC/MECHANICAL ROUTINE
Shift Linkage, Digital TR Sensor
· Damaged or misadjusted
· Inspect and repair as required. Verify transmission shift cable adjustment; refer to Section 307-05. Adjust transmission shift cable as necessary. After repairing transmission shift cable, verify that the digital TR sensor is properly adjusted; refer to Digital Transmission Range (TR) Sensor in this section. Adjust the digital TR sensor as necessary.
Improper Pressures
· Forward clutch pressure, direct clutch pressure, line pressure
· Check line, direct and forward clutch pressures at appropriate taps; refer to Line Pressure Chart for specifications. If pressures are out of specification, check main controls.
Main Controls
· 3-4 shift valve, solenoid pressure regulator valve, OD servo regulator, 3-4 capacity modulator valve, 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves stuck, damaged or assembled incorrectly
· Inspect for damaged. Repair as required.
· Bolts not tightened to specifications
· Tighten bolts to specifications.
· SSA or SSB malfunction
· Activate solenoid using transmission tester. If solenoid operation cannot be felt when placing hand on solenoid, replace solenoid. Inspect O-rings for damage. Repair as required.
· Gaskets damaged
· Inspect for damage and replace.
· OD servo rod and piston cushion spring or seals damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· No. 2, No. 4, No. 7 and No. 9 check balls damaged or missing
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Solenoid screen (in main control) blocked or damaged
· Clean or replace screen.
Pump
· Porosity/cross leaks, balls missing, damaged or leaking
· Inspect for porosity/leaks, balls missing. Replace pump as required.
· Gaskets damaged
· Inspect for damage. Replace as required.
OD Band
· OD band and reverse clutch drum assembly damaged, worn or assembled incorrectly
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Intermediate one-way clutch assembly damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
Forward Clutch Assembly
· Seals or piston damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Friction elements worn or damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
· Check ball stuck, damaged or not seating properly
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
Input Shaft
· Seals damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.
95 2wd shortbed styleside with a 98 mountaineer 5.0
ported GT-40P heads, E-303 cam, Trick Flow Street Heat intake, 1.7 rollers, 24lb injs,155lph in-tank pump, built AOD, 2800 converter, Torque Monster headers, dropped 3/4 on 98 Cobra wheels. Eternal work in progress.
94 Ranger XLT b. 6/10/94 d.3/28/11 300,842 miles RIP
06 Fusion SEL
11 F150 FX2 SCrew 5.0 Coyote, Custom SCT X3 tune, Roush CAI
ported GT-40P heads, E-303 cam, Trick Flow Street Heat intake, 1.7 rollers, 24lb injs,155lph in-tank pump, built AOD, 2800 converter, Torque Monster headers, dropped 3/4 on 98 Cobra wheels. Eternal work in progress.
94 Ranger XLT b. 6/10/94 d.3/28/11 300,842 miles RIP
06 Fusion SEL
11 F150 FX2 SCrew 5.0 Coyote, Custom SCT X3 tune, Roush CAI
-
cjcnomor4
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:43 pm
- SM: No
- Location: Spring Hill, FL (1 hour N of Tampa)
Shift Solenoids Pre-Diagnosis
Use the following shift solenoid operation information when performing Pinpoint Test A.
Solenoid Operation Chart Gear Lever Position PCM Commanded Gear Solenoids
SSA SSB TCC
P/R/N 1 ON OFF HD
(D) 1 ON OFF HD
(D) 2 OFF OFF EC
(D) 3 OFF ON EC
(D) 4 ON ON EC
(D)
w/OD OFF
1 1 ON OFF HD
2 2 OFF OFF EC
3 3 OFF ON EC
Manual 2 2 OFF OFF EC
Manual 1 1 ON OFF HD
a 1 2 OFF OFF EC
a When a manual pull-in occurs above a calibrated speed the transmission will downshift from the higher gear until the vehicle speed drops below this calibrated speed.
EC = Electronically Controlled.
HD = Hydraulically Disabled.
Shift Solenoid Failure Mode Chart "Always Off"
Failed off due to and/or vehicle wiring concerns, electrically or hydraulically stuck off.
SSA ALWAYS OFF: Gear Lever Position
(D) 2 1
PCM Gear
Commanded Actual Gear
Obtained
1 2 2 2
2 2 2 2
3 3 2* 2*
4 3 2* 2*
*No engine braking.
SSB ALWAYS OFF: Gear Lever Position
(D) 2 1
PCM Gear
Commanded Actual Gear
Obtained
1 1 1 1
2 2 2 2
3 2 2 2
4 1 1 1
Shift Solenoid Failure Mode Chart "Always On"
Failed on due to and/or vehicle wiring concerns, electrically or hydraulically stuck on.
SSA ALWAYS ON: Gear Lever Position
(D) 2 1
PCM Gear
Commanded Actual Gear
Obtained
1 1 1 1
2 1 1 1
3 4 2* 2*
4 4 2* 2*
*No engine braking.
SSB ALWAYS ON: Gear Lever Position
(D) 2 1
PCM Gear
Commanded Actual Gear
Obtained
1 4 2* 2*
2 3 2* 2*
3 3 2* 2*
4 4 2* 2*
*No engine braking.
Use the following shift solenoid operation information when performing Pinpoint Test A.
Solenoid Operation Chart Gear Lever Position PCM Commanded Gear Solenoids
SSA SSB TCC
P/R/N 1 ON OFF HD
(D) 1 ON OFF HD
(D) 2 OFF OFF EC
(D) 3 OFF ON EC
(D) 4 ON ON EC
(D)
w/OD OFF
1 1 ON OFF HD
2 2 OFF OFF EC
3 3 OFF ON EC
Manual 2 2 OFF OFF EC
Manual 1 1 ON OFF HD
a 1 2 OFF OFF EC
a When a manual pull-in occurs above a calibrated speed the transmission will downshift from the higher gear until the vehicle speed drops below this calibrated speed.
EC = Electronically Controlled.
HD = Hydraulically Disabled.
Shift Solenoid Failure Mode Chart "Always Off"
Failed off due to and/or vehicle wiring concerns, electrically or hydraulically stuck off.
SSA ALWAYS OFF: Gear Lever Position
(D) 2 1
PCM Gear
Commanded Actual Gear
Obtained
1 2 2 2
2 2 2 2
3 3 2* 2*
4 3 2* 2*
*No engine braking.
SSB ALWAYS OFF: Gear Lever Position
(D) 2 1
PCM Gear
Commanded Actual Gear
Obtained
1 1 1 1
2 2 2 2
3 2 2 2
4 1 1 1
Shift Solenoid Failure Mode Chart "Always On"
Failed on due to and/or vehicle wiring concerns, electrically or hydraulically stuck on.
SSA ALWAYS ON: Gear Lever Position
(D) 2 1
PCM Gear
Commanded Actual Gear
Obtained
1 1 1 1
2 1 1 1
3 4 2* 2*
4 4 2* 2*
*No engine braking.
SSB ALWAYS ON: Gear Lever Position
(D) 2 1
PCM Gear
Commanded Actual Gear
Obtained
1 4 2* 2*
2 3 2* 2*
3 3 2* 2*
4 4 2* 2*
*No engine braking.
95 2wd shortbed styleside with a 98 mountaineer 5.0
ported GT-40P heads, E-303 cam, Trick Flow Street Heat intake, 1.7 rollers, 24lb injs,155lph in-tank pump, built AOD, 2800 converter, Torque Monster headers, dropped 3/4 on 98 Cobra wheels. Eternal work in progress.
94 Ranger XLT b. 6/10/94 d.3/28/11 300,842 miles RIP
06 Fusion SEL
11 F150 FX2 SCrew 5.0 Coyote, Custom SCT X3 tune, Roush CAI
ported GT-40P heads, E-303 cam, Trick Flow Street Heat intake, 1.7 rollers, 24lb injs,155lph in-tank pump, built AOD, 2800 converter, Torque Monster headers, dropped 3/4 on 98 Cobra wheels. Eternal work in progress.
94 Ranger XLT b. 6/10/94 d.3/28/11 300,842 miles RIP
06 Fusion SEL
11 F150 FX2 SCrew 5.0 Coyote, Custom SCT X3 tune, Roush CAI
-
cjcnomor4
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:43 pm
- SM: No
- Location: Spring Hill, FL (1 hour N of Tampa)
give me an email address i'll send a clutch and band chart too
95 2wd shortbed styleside with a 98 mountaineer 5.0
ported GT-40P heads, E-303 cam, Trick Flow Street Heat intake, 1.7 rollers, 24lb injs,155lph in-tank pump, built AOD, 2800 converter, Torque Monster headers, dropped 3/4 on 98 Cobra wheels. Eternal work in progress.
94 Ranger XLT b. 6/10/94 d.3/28/11 300,842 miles RIP
06 Fusion SEL
11 F150 FX2 SCrew 5.0 Coyote, Custom SCT X3 tune, Roush CAI
ported GT-40P heads, E-303 cam, Trick Flow Street Heat intake, 1.7 rollers, 24lb injs,155lph in-tank pump, built AOD, 2800 converter, Torque Monster headers, dropped 3/4 on 98 Cobra wheels. Eternal work in progress.
94 Ranger XLT b. 6/10/94 d.3/28/11 300,842 miles RIP
06 Fusion SEL
11 F150 FX2 SCrew 5.0 Coyote, Custom SCT X3 tune, Roush CAI
-
Adam McLaughlin
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:47 pm
- SM: No
- Location: Santa Rosa, California
What color is the fluid?
If you smoked the direct clutch pack, or any clutch pack, this should be pretty visible on the dipstick.
If you lost a seal OR have an electrical problem, then this could be seen with a clean dipstick AND the symptom you describe.
Do you feel ANY sensation in the trans when it tries to get into third?
Do you have a neutral condition when the VSS commands third, or does it stay in second as you drive it?
Here is what I would do. I would drop the pan, look for "evidence" in the bottom of the pan, and if you found none, then swap the shift solenoid. I think that they are less than $20, so the fluid costs will outweigh the solenoid, so it still "somewhat" of a cheap diagnosis.
If that doesn't fix it, you're pulling the trans regardless to diagnose and repair. The only thing you can hope for here is a stuck valve or a bad solenoid. Otherwise, you're dropping that transmission to look inside and repair. Still one of the easiest transmissions to work on and fix, I think the roots of the trans go back to the FMX design.
Adam
If you smoked the direct clutch pack, or any clutch pack, this should be pretty visible on the dipstick.
If you lost a seal OR have an electrical problem, then this could be seen with a clean dipstick AND the symptom you describe.
Do you feel ANY sensation in the trans when it tries to get into third?
Do you have a neutral condition when the VSS commands third, or does it stay in second as you drive it?
Here is what I would do. I would drop the pan, look for "evidence" in the bottom of the pan, and if you found none, then swap the shift solenoid. I think that they are less than $20, so the fluid costs will outweigh the solenoid, so it still "somewhat" of a cheap diagnosis.
If that doesn't fix it, you're pulling the trans regardless to diagnose and repair. The only thing you can hope for here is a stuck valve or a bad solenoid. Otherwise, you're dropping that transmission to look inside and repair. Still one of the easiest transmissions to work on and fix, I think the roots of the trans go back to the FMX design.
Adam
1992 Ranger with a 1995 357 L Engine - 9.4:1 Compression & AFR 185 CC Heads- A9L and Moates Chip - AOD and 3.73 Detroit Locker *smog legal* in California
1989 Mustang w/ H/C/I V-2 SQ and A9S w/ TwEECer
1989 Mustang w/ H/C/I V-2 SQ and A9S w/ TwEECer
-
broncobowsher
- Posts: 138
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:14 am
I have already done the clutch and band chart, that is how I figured it was the direct clutch.
3rd gear never happens, just holds 2nd.
As soon as I get some good pressure rated hose I will do a pressure test for the direct clutch pack. If I don't get any pressure when it should be in 3rd or 4th, I am guessing valve body.
I suspect I will get pressure, indicating mechanical failure. Thus asking if there was a common failure part. It looks like the intermediete shaft is known for breaking under high HP applications, I don't think my HP is that high. Dyno was only showing 250 at the wheels. Trans was a '99 Explorer that was suppose to have had the upgraded diode out of the factory.
Trans was from a high 30k mile donor, looked to have just been rebuilt withen 1000 miles of me getting it (super clean inside and out, dealer installed magnet/filter on trans cooler line). Baumann shift kit, upped torque capcity spring (stroker motor). just under 2k total miles since install.
I have pretty much narrowed it to the direct clutch or something very close. That is why I was asking for any known weak points in that. Most all of the dry service work is checking out OK. I just hate getting my ATF bath doing the wet work.
3rd gear never happens, just holds 2nd.
As soon as I get some good pressure rated hose I will do a pressure test for the direct clutch pack. If I don't get any pressure when it should be in 3rd or 4th, I am guessing valve body.
I suspect I will get pressure, indicating mechanical failure. Thus asking if there was a common failure part. It looks like the intermediete shaft is known for breaking under high HP applications, I don't think my HP is that high. Dyno was only showing 250 at the wheels. Trans was a '99 Explorer that was suppose to have had the upgraded diode out of the factory.
Trans was from a high 30k mile donor, looked to have just been rebuilt withen 1000 miles of me getting it (super clean inside and out, dealer installed magnet/filter on trans cooler line). Baumann shift kit, upped torque capcity spring (stroker motor). just under 2k total miles since install.
I have pretty much narrowed it to the direct clutch or something very close. That is why I was asking for any known weak points in that. Most all of the dry service work is checking out OK. I just hate getting my ATF bath doing the wet work.