Pics & Videos here of course

[MalcolmV8]

This will be a great forum to post all kinds of cool pictures and videos. This is not limited to Rangers or cars. Anything funny and cool goes, as usual just keep it clean. There's plenty of porn on the net, we don't need any here.

Later
Malcolm

[87ranger]

what a nice "playground" that malcolm has supplied for us. Thank You.

this is the engine before the conversion



this is during and after













if anyone wants some picture of the rest of the truck let me know

[MalcolmV8]

Those turbos are awesome. Have you fired it over yet?

[87ranger]

been running it since july

[MalcolmV8]

No kidding. I must have missed that. Is it everything you hoped for? Does it pull like an animal?

[87ranger]

its absoulety insane from 3,500 and up, i have full boost from 3,000-3,300, im making approx 600 at the crank and with the air to water intercooler running ambient water my air temps at 7 lbs never exceed 100 degrees, ive passed the hp limit of the stock block by a decent amount but it keeps on kicking, probly due to the fact that im using turbos instead of any other form of power adder

[MalcolmV8]

Wow that's awesome. What did you say those turbos came from again?

[87ranger]

generic ebay cheap'os, 61mm-t4- .84 open turbine housing

[MalcolmV8]

How do those oil lines going to the turbos work? I assume one drains to the sump but how does it get up there? Did you tap into the remote oil filter lines?

Also on the driver's side in the exhaust part I see what looks like a temp sensor in there, is that what it is? Do you monitor it to make sure the turbos are not over heating?

After looking at the ebay cheapo turbos I'm really considering getting one to play with. I see a single turbo on my blue truck Not sure how deal with the tuning part.... that part sucks.

[cgrey8]

I'll try not to steal all his questions, but the thing in the exhaust is a Wideband O2 sensor. Any time you go playing with a boosted application, you NEED one of those.

Tuning of any amount really goes smoother with a Wideband so you know whether your commanded AFRs are legit or not. I've been suffering through without since all I have is a stock motor. But even I could really benefit from a nice LC-1 in my exhaust. The Innovate LC-1 Widebands are nice because they are 2 channel units. One channel goes to your datalogging software as a standard 0-5v signal. The other "emulates" the narrow-band it replaced in your exhaust and wires to your wiring harness just like the OEM HEGO did.

As for tuning a boosted application, each one is a little different and requires a different strategy when tuning.

Positive Displacement superchargers are pretty much on or off. There's very little boost range working with them. You are either at boost or you aren't (at least that's what I've read from others on the tuning forum). So you tune for the majority of the non-boosted portion of throttle, then tune for WOT under boost paying most of your attention to spark advance...or a reduction of it at boosted pressures to keep from blowing a head gasket.

Centrifugals are more granular in their contribution and thus allow you to be at "partially" boosted conditions where you are not at WOT pressures, but the engine is still seeing positive pressures and thus you can gradually back off of the timing and increase fuel enrichment as boost increases. There's also other functions that allow you to remove spark advance based on ACT since ACT goes up as boost pressure rises.

Turbos can be a tuning nightmare just because of the lag associated with them. It's possible to be at WOT and not see max boost. So you can't genericize your tuning to WOT and non-WOT conditions without sacrificing some performance during the lag time. And unfortunately, 89-93 Mustang EECs in stock form want to do just that by controlling WOT conditions purely based on RPM, not based on actual engine Load. For turbos, you pretty much have to disable "WOT" strategy and control based on engine load which IMO is a better way to do it in the 1st place and probably why "WOT" strategy was dumped starting with the 94-95 Mustang EECs. Now without a WOT strategy simplifying all Spark/Fuel decisions down to RPMs, you can have the Throttle at WOT but you control Fuel and Spark based on what the MAF is telling you about the airflow. So until the boost builds, you can run a slightly leaner mix and more spark which gives you more power. As the boost builds, your tune will enrich the mix and start backing off on the advance to protect your head gaskets.

The good news is there's plenty of turbo Stangs using the TwEECer on the forums with great success. So there's lots of support in the tuning community to do this. But there's plenty of argument out there that strokers are a more efficienty way to build HP as compared boost. But there's probably twice as many people with super/turbo Mustangs than 331/347 motors, so it's all personal preference.

So stroked or blown...which do you prefer?

[MalcolmV8]

Turbos can be a tuning nightmare just because of the lag associated with them. It's possible to be at WOT and not see max boost. So you can't genericize your tuning to WOT and non-WOT conditions without sacrificing some performance during the lag time.

Seems like an ECC with a boost sensor would take care of this but that's probably another $3k for an after market EFI system. I see turbos on ebay for $179 buy it now price. I'd love to play with it but not really in the position to spend a fortune or blow up my truck right now.

So stroked or blown...which do you prefer?

If money was not an option both.

[cgrey8]

The good news is, you don't need an aftermarket EEC. You just need a datalogging tuner and some guidance as to how to optimize things for a turbo (BTW, that's not me. I just know something about what the boosted guys have to go through). Like I said, there are PLENTY of forced induction motors using the 89-93 EEC.

The interesting thing is most stock supercharged applications don't use a boost input on the EEC. It's too easy for the EEC to "figure out" that it's at boost simply by comparing the MAF sensor value with the CID & RPM. That association is essentially the instantaneous Volumetric Efficiency, and in the tuning world, that calculated value is referred to as the engine Load in units of percent. Once the Load goes above 100%, you are at positive boost and for restrictive motors, 100% VE is probably already at a little positive pressure. Even loads that are in the 90s are still being "boosted" as compared to what the motor would do without the supercharger. Most stock motors have a MAX Load of 78-80% around 3500RPMs and average VE in the low 70s. Built motors with Heads/Cam/Intake (H/C/I) upgrades average high 80s and low 90s MAX. Boosted motors are typically from 110-170% depending on the supercharger & H/C/I upgrades you have. Centrifugals don't usually get past 130% VE and that's pushin' em. PDs when setup right have no problem getting into the 150 and 160s with a good intercooler.

I don't know what the turbo guys are getting for Load values. I don't know any of those guys very well.

But yeah, H/C/I with a stroker kit AND super/turbo setup is good for 600hp no question. Just ask 87ranger...

[87ranger]

chris is right, just remember with the turbo that you have the least amount of rotating mass and no parasitic shear and torsional loads 7 or 8 inches in front of your front main bearing, that fact in its self is the reason that otherwise "weak" engines can with stand ligher loads in turbo form than from any other power adder, get the book "maximum boost" from corky bell and he does a real ggod job of explaining theories and facts on the subject

[302_Stranger]

.....That is the most beautiful thing ive ever saw...

[v8ranger]

That is SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very nice !!!! Where did you get the hood?