Used 36lb injectors test perfect...

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cgrey8
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Used 36lb injectors test perfect...

Post by cgrey8 »

I drove over to Fuel Injector Connection in Cumming, GA this morning to have my used 36lb injectors tested. The main thing I wanted to do was to make sure none were leakers or some major issue with one or more of them.

I showed the guy what I had, and he recognized them right off as Pontiac Grand Prix Supercharger injectors. He even quoted the PNs stamped in the side of them by memory. The auction was for 10-36lb Bosch injectors even though all I needed was 8. Without having them tested though, I had no clue if there was 10 in the set because 2 were known to be bad. So I decided it was worth taking the time to drive across town to have him at least run them on the bench. The short story is all 10 are dead-on.

Here's a pic of the results of the first 8:
Image

This was after about 30 seconds of 50% duty cycle run I believe. He said these are absolutely perfect. And at 1st glance, the lines looked perfectly flat across the row. But looking closer, I noticed that #2 and #3 were slightly lower than the others. He said relatively speaking, that's minuscule and easily ignored. Specs require that the injectors be within 5% of target. These are less than 1% of target. The other two injectors were just as close.

He said the whole concept of "flow matched" is from the older style pintle injectors. The older style EV1 style (fat-body) injectors were the ones that needed flow matching...bad. He said he's taken brand new sets of the fat-body injectors, and they would be all over the place with levels recognizably different from across the room and still technically in spec. So when racing, you really benefit from paying for flow-matched sets of those. But with Bosch's ability to get this level of reliability and accuracy from their injectors, you no longer need to worry about flow-matching. You get the accuracy of flow-matched sets on stock engines today.

I've got a video of the spray pattern, but it's a bit large to post. It looks pretty much just like all their other videos they have posted on their website. In the video you can't tell, but some sprayed straighter than others. He said there were no issues that would bother him or lead him to believe that one injector was better than another. Satisfied no serious servicing is needed, he runs lube through the injectors, replaced the upper O-rings on all of the injectors, capped the ends, bagged them for me, and sent me on my way.

He did say if I ever "outgrow" these injectors, he can re-drill these injectors to be 50-55lb injectors, which is cheaper than a new set of 55-60lb Bosch injectors. He also said the 19lb injectors I have on my stock Explorer engine now are actually 22lb injectors when run at 43.5PSI and can be drilled to flow as 36s...same as the injectors I had tested. All-n-all, he said unless I ever decide to build some seriously boosted setup, the injectors I have on hand should work for me for anything I ever want to build.

Anyway, since he took time on a Saturday morning to test my injectors, talk to me, and let me get some pics and video, I promised him I'd give him a plug here on the site. So if you ever need some injector service, give them a call:
Fuel Injector Connection
770-888-1662
info@fuelinjectorconnection.com
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: Used 36lb injectors test perfect...

Post by carvinmark »

You got hooked up with a great guy from the sounds of that. Wish I could get over my fear of computers and injection in vehicles, because I know the performance is way better then a carb.
88 Ranger short bed, 5.0 HO, T5, 9", My driver, Thanks guys for your help
63 Falcon, chopped top, tubbed, many mods, sitting for many years, soon to have 331 and T5
60 Galaxie Starliner, chopped rat rod cruiser
Berrian 100" rail, Corvair 140+ 6 cylinder
00 Explorer, 4.0, AWD, daily driver
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Re: Used 36lb injectors test perfect...

Post by cgrey8 »

I'm not going to lie and tell you EFI is cheaper. It is NOT. It is more complicated and to be honest, the power difference on a naturally aspirated engine is somewhat negligible. However when doing modifications to the engine, having EFI with a tuner/datalogger makes it so much easier to deal with. I don't recommend anybody go EFI unless they are ready to not just put in the investment to support EFI. And if you are running EFI on a frequently driven vehicle, you'll either need to find a good tuner or invest both time and money into learning how to tune it. For people that enjoy driving a vehicle more than tinkering with a computer, DIY tuning is not for you. But for people that are intrigued by that sort of thing, you'll learn FAR more about what the black-box does than you ever realized. Even the old EECs from the late 80s and 90s are impressively complex. As you move into newer EECs, the complexity grows. But there's a lot of great help over on the EECTuning.org site for someone that is willing to make that investment (financial and personal time).
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: Used 36lb injectors test perfect...

Post by MalcolmV8 »

wow interesting on drilling out the injectors for more flow. I've never heard of that and not sure how much I trust that... well at least without understanding more about the process and how it affects the spray pattern etc. Speaking of injectors I need a set of 80 lbs for the Cobra. It never ends lol :)
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

https://www.youtube.com/c/MalcolmV8
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Re: Used 36lb injectors test perfect...

Post by cgrey8 »

Talk to them. See what they say. I remember him showing me a set of 60lb injectors and talking about having some 80s in stock.

As for the drilling, he showed me the micro-bits and a special stand he fabbed up to hold the injector and move it minuscule amounts to get the bit lined up with the next hole. He says he always reflows drilled injectors to make sure there's not a burr that's causing an odd flow pattern. I don't know what "stock" injector he could drill to make 80lb injectors though. Those may require being purchased new.

The good news is the new 80lb Deka injectors are supposed to be awesome...perfectly matched with exceptional low-flow accuracy to make idle and cruising just as smooth and accurate as the stock injectors.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: Used 36lb injectors test perfect...

Post by MalcolmV8 »

I was going to ask you what Deka injectors are but that looks like exactly what I'll be getting so I guess I'm in good shape. These are the ones for my vehicle. Just waiting on tax return check :) lol

http://www.lethalperformance.com/03-04- ... -8-p-28480
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

https://www.youtube.com/c/MalcolmV8
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Re: Used 36lb injectors test perfect...

Post by cgrey8 »

If you do call FIC, ask for Bill. Let him know you heard about them from my post. Like I said, I promised Bill I'd mention their services after he was willing to let me come in on a Saturday morning to get some 1-on-1 time to not just test my injectors but to let me ask lots of questions.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: Used 36lb injectors test perfect...

Post by MalcolmV8 »

Chris, how much was the fuel flow rate testing? After reading your post here I did a little looking around and people do take the stock 39 lb cobra injectors and have them rebuilt to flow 60 lbs. 63 lbs to be exact I saw on one guys flow chart. Anyhow I need 80 lbs so I'll have to buy larger ones which is fine but I wanted to get them flow matched if they are not already from the manufacture. I checked with a very reputable shop, stiegemeier porting who also ported my blower years ago, and they can do a full flow match, cleaning etc. etc. for $150. Seems high to me so I was curious what you paid?

Thanks
Malcolm
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

https://www.youtube.com/c/MalcolmV8
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Re: Used 36lb injectors test perfect...

Post by cgrey8 »

I didn't pay anything. I traded a set of 24lb injectors I bought years ago for the testing, lubrication, and cleanup he did. If you can get a flowmatched set of 80lb injectors for $150, I'd say that's not bad.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: Used 36lb injectors test perfect...

Post by MalcolmV8 »

No it's $400 for the 80s new and then $150 to flow match them. So that would be $550.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

https://www.youtube.com/c/MalcolmV8
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Re: Used 36lb injectors test perfect...

Post by cgrey8 »

If they are Bosch injectors, don't bother with the flow matching. The guy said there's very little reason to flow them anymore other than just to verify they are working and that there isn't some SNAFU that got missed at the factory. After all, look at the levels of the 36s I had tested. That's with obviously USED injectors in a supercharged Pontiac engine that gets the injectors so hot it browns the plastic around the bottom of the injectors and they are still that close. If you just want to spend the money, go ahead, but you might want to sit through whatever it is they are doing for that $150. I'd be ticked off if all they did for $150 is put them on the flow bench and said yep, they are good and handed them to you.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: Used 36lb injectors test perfect...

Post by MalcolmV8 »

No they are not Bosch, they are Siemen Deka

http://www.lethalperformance.com/03-04- ... -8-p-28480
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

https://www.youtube.com/c/MalcolmV8
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cgrey8
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Re: Used 36lb injectors test perfect...

Post by cgrey8 »

I believe I've seen the Dekas also shown on a flowbench and how accurate they are. But he didn't mention whether the Siemens are as accurate as the Bosch out of the box. But my gut feeling is that with today's technology they are. The 36s I'm using were made in the mid 90s. The 80lb high impedance injectors just came out a few years ago.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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