Anybody know of plug-in hybrid retrofits for older vehicles?

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cgrey8
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Anybody know of plug-in hybrid retrofits for older vehicles?

Post by cgrey8 »

I was looking at some of the new hybrids trucks and it appears these things are nothing but an engine with a generator/electric motor instead of a transmission. I'm just wondering if anybody has heard of any Hybrid conversions for older vehicles?

I'm envisioning such a kit that'll literally replace an existing tranny with a generator/electric motor combo. The user will need to fit and wire-in batteries located somewhere on the vehicle. The throttle pedal would operate a Throttle Position Sensor monitored by a Hybrid controller. The controller will modulate an actuator to control the engine's throttle body. And perhaps the Hybrid controller would need starter access to crank the engine on demand when the batteries are depleted. It seems pretty simple in theory as long as the Hybrid controller can "emulate" an electronic tranny to keep tranny-controlling EECs happy.

I was just curios if anybody had heard of any plug-in hybrid conversion kits being developed out there. If there was one and it could run a vehicle for 30-40 miles on a charge, that would get me to and from work with zero gas. I'd be interested in such a conversion. While gas is affordable now, I'm not convinced that our wonderful commander-n-chief won't put a huge gas tax on us and return us to the $3+/gal range. And a kit sounds a lot cheaper than buying a new car. Besides, I want to continue to drive my truck!
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: Anybody know of plug-in hybrid retrofits for older vehicles?

Post by MalcolmV8 »

So your vehicle would be single speed? If you swapped out the tranny for an electric motor you have single speed from the gas motor right?
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
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Re: Anybody know of plug-in hybrid retrofits for older vehicles?

Post by cgrey8 »

The electric motor would need some kind of transmission. But for electric motors, that's not a terribly difficult thing. They can produce an enormous amount of torque at 0 RPMs unlike a conventional engine but a decent AOD would work just fine with the right rearend gear. As for the engine, it would not have a direct connection to the wheels. It would run the generator which would drive the electric motor. So a hybrid controller could maintain the engine RPM indpendent of your throttle pedal. That means off the line your engine could be 5000RPMs. Or you could be 80MPH at 1100RPMs. With no direct connection between the engine RPM and the wheels, you can get the optimal engine output for whatever speed you are at and acceleration you need.

I didn't mention this, but a switch mounted to the brake could also give you regenerative braking.

What got me to thinking about this was the Raser Technologies article where they are getting 100+MPG from an H3 Hummer:
Project Review: Raser’s Electric 100mpg SUV

Here's the interesting pic:
RaserTechHybrid.JPG
Notice there is a tranny there and some big device right after the tranny that I don't know exactly what is.

Now there's trickery in the numbers. That's over a limited number of miles. What they do is charge the batteries, and get 40 miles on 100% electricity. Then anything over 40 miles the engine kicks in. But even ongoing, the fuel economy over long distances is something like 30MPG and they have regenerative braking which vastly improves city mileage. Given I only drive 25 miles round trip, a 40 mile distance capacity on a single charge would pretty much remove my need to buy gas for my truck for the daily commute leaving LOTS more money for "fun" driving!
Last edited by cgrey8 on Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: Anybody know of plug-in hybrid retrofits for older vehicles?

Post by MalcolmV8 »

Very cool. I see Chris' Electric Conversions LLC coming up :)
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

https://www.youtube.com/c/MalcolmV8
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Re: Anybody know of plug-in hybrid retrofits for older vehicles?

Post by cgrey8 »

I talked with a guy at Raser Technologies and he said they are in the VERY early phases of licensing this technology out for retrofits on older vehicles. But the details are not even close to being ironed out yet. He did confirm some facts about the setup that its a 100kw generator (~134HP), and it was coupled with an L4 2.0L just because that was about optimal for running that generator. The transmission in this case is the same 4 speed used in normal Hummers, but in NEW CAR production, the transmission could be a 2 speed since the variable speed electric motor doesn't need 4 gears. The 4-speed was chosen in the interest of reusing existing technology as much as they could for the proof of concept.

I asked about larger generators capable of converting a V8's power for retrofits and he was a bit puzzled by that question because he said that would be less efficient since you really don't need a V8. I agreed that from an efficiency standpoint you wouldn't, but it would make sense to maximize Wide-Open Throttle response and in effect get the combination of engine power and the battery power to the electric motor and put more torque to the wheels than either the batteries or engine could do on their own. His only comment was to reaffirm that the technology in its current form is not what it'll be as a production product.

So far, it doesn't appear we'll get this technology in a polished hybrid-conversion form any time soon without doing it ourselves...at least not from Raser. But it was encouraging to know that talks of doing this as a retrofit on older vehicles is being discussed. But hopefully my contacting them at least let them know that there is public interest in plug-in hybrid retrofit technology.

It's just unfortunate that the largest generator they currently have is 100kw. A 200kw (~268hp) would be required for the average stock/lightly modified V8. And of course if you had a modified engine capable of 350-400hp, you'd need a 300kw (~402hp) gen, and of course an electric motor big enough to use that much power. But that size electric motor and generator would likely not be physically practical for the average vehicle. Instead, I imagine there'd be a direct-drive engagement clutch to allow the engine torque to bypass through the generator & the electric motor directly to the trans. At WOT loads, you are hardly interested in the fuel efficiency of the hybrid technology, so it would make sense to bypass it completely. Imagine, if the engine's power was literally run through the electric motor's armature, then the electric motor could continue to output off the batteries and "help" the engine thus being an electric power adder. Assuming an electric motor sized for that 100kw generator, that'd be a 120-130hp plus whatever the engine's doing. That's one heck of a power adder for a stock engine!
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: Anybody know of plug-in hybrid retrofits for older vehicles?

Post by cgrey8 »

Another thought I had was using a 4wd Ranger and driving the front wheels with an electric motor/trans, but setting up the rear wheels to be driven like a standard 2wd...using a V8 of course. When the bats get weak, crank the engine and drive on the engine. I could even maintain a stick-shift tranny which I'd really like. Sure it wouldn't be quite as efficient of a setup and unfortunately, I couldn't do it with the truck I have now, but if a setup like that could get me 25 miles on plug-in batteries while still delivering ~130hp to the front wheels, that'd be a big saving for a daily driven vehicle. Not to mention think about the AWD performance I'd have with fully charged bats driving the front wheels and the V8 driving the rears. With the electric motor driving the front wheels, you wouldn't have to worry about stalling the engine dumping the clutch off-idle at a stand-still.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: Anybody know of plug-in hybrid retrofits for older vehicles?

Post by MalcolmV8 »

You should find one of those rearends they used in the electric Rangers Ford built many years ago. It had electric motors on the rear axle just behind the rear wheels. That way you can keep the 2x4 truck you have now and add electric but also keep the gas motor setup. Or custom build your own rearend like that :) Or put a sprocket on the drive shaft with a chain to an electric motor :) sounds rigged but expand on the idea. Like maybe a chain and sprocket on a yolk end of the drive shaft with an electric motor.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

https://www.youtube.com/c/MalcolmV8
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Re: Anybody know of plug-in hybrid retrofits for older vehicles?

Post by Foxracin »

Where I went to high school at they had a EV club deal with auto tech and we had a Electric 1986 Ranger They converted years ago. Its still had the stock 5 speed and everything. They just has a big aluminum plate machined that bolted a big ole electric motor to the tranny. It had 16 6 volt batteries which equaled 96 volts. It was weird as heck driving it cause it didnt make a lick of sound and it still had the clutch but you didnt have to use it. You could just slap it in gear and hit the gas pedal. Or get the motor spinning and drop the clutch and spin the hell out of the tire. lol It was pretty neat.

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Re: Anybody know of plug-in hybrid retrofits for older vehicles?

Post by MalcolmV8 »

There you go chris, build one of those :) that's very cool btw.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

https://www.youtube.com/c/MalcolmV8
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Re: Anybody know of plug-in hybrid retrofits for older vehicles?

Post by cgrey8 »

No doubt. That's impressive!
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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