concentric slave cylinder

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Raynger
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concentric slave cylinder

Post by Raynger »

Hi guys, Thank-you all for the words of wisdom in helping me get my 8 yr project on the road. I finally did it this summer, got it on the road! Well, after 5K fun miles the throwout bearing went. Guess I shouldn't have pressure washed it and then let it sit for 8 yrs! Here is where you guys come in! When I pull this trans I'd like to go with a King Cobra or OEM clutch and I'm thinking of scrapping my 280z external slave for a 2005+ mustang concentric slave like my truck had back in its 4cyl days. What do ya'll think? Anyone done one? Thanks for all I've already learned as a guest on this forum utilizing the search function to get this thing together and in advance for your responses!

This guy used the bearing retainer modified it and used a F-150 slave:
http://www.tffn.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.ph ... =+internal

And i'd like the inside of my bell to look like this:
Attachments
2005 4.0 mustang T-5 w/ concentric slave cylinder
2005 4.0 mustang T-5 w/ concentric slave cylinder
1988 Ford Ranger XLT - Stock injected 95 mustang Gt motor, 95 T-5 trans and wheels.
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cgrey8
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Re: concentric slave cylinder

Post by cgrey8 »

The most popular concentric slave conversion that I know of for T5s is the McLoud slave setup. But to be honest, I looked at getting away from the concentric slave setup as an upgrade when I went to the V8. As a V6, I think I replaced 3 of those slave cylinders over the years. And it was an absolute PITA to do each time. With a T5, it'd probably be much easier, but still. I viewed having the external slave so easy to access as an improvement over the concentric design which requires pulling the trans. I've never had to pull a trans due to throwout bearing. But even if I did, I would simply go back together with a high quality TOB rather than converting your external slave setup.

But if you are so inclined and view that as better, see if the McLoud stuff is still available.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Raynger
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Re: concentric slave cylinder

Post by Raynger »

cjcnomor4 wrote:just to remind everyone the 05 mustang v6 5-speed uses a t-5 with an internal slave. looking at pictures ( i've never been under one yet) it looks like the same quick disconnect fitting the rangers use. they also have a remote mount shifter that may help with shifter placement in the ranger.
Looking for a simplified OEM set up I can get parts for at the local auto parts store that'll give me more exhaust clearance. Has anyone tried this set up?
1988 Ford Ranger XLT - Stock injected 95 mustang Gt motor, 95 T-5 trans and wheels.
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MalcolmV8
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Re: concentric slave cylinder

Post by MalcolmV8 »

cgrey8 wrote:I've never had to pull a trans due to throwout bearing. But even if I did, I would simply go back together with a high quality TOB rather than converting your external slave setup.
Careful what you wish for lol :) I've pulled the tranny out of my Cobra many times just to replace the TOB. By many I mean ohh... at least 5 times over the last 5 years or so. I haven't kept exact count but it's been a lot. All of these have been since going to aftermarket clutches. Not sure what the TOB doesn't like about it. Each time has been the Ford Racing TOB which is supposed to be the best. Once I tried a different bearing supplied by Spec Clutches just to try and it didn't last nearly as long as the Ford Racing units.
I've also tried different styles of setup such as setting up the bearing with a light amount of pressure on the clutch so the bearing is spinning all the time, a heavier amount of pressure, and even slightly off the clutch so it was not spinning when not pressing in the clutch. For me the bearings I setup with a light amount of pressure to keep the bearing spinning all the time has worked the best and it lasts the longest that way. Speaking of my TOB has been making some light noise all summer and needs replacing again and I've been ignoring it cause I'm tired of replacing them :) I think next time the clutch is getting replaced too because I'm thinking it's somehow the cause of the bearing failures. I suspect un even pressure plate fingers pressing up on the bearing.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

https://www.youtube.com/c/MalcolmV8
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cgrey8
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Re: concentric slave cylinder

Post by cgrey8 »

I'm just running the FMS King Cobra clutch. Perhaps because I'm not running a heavy stage clutch, my original TOB is still working for me. But I've heard about TOB issues. A guy at work with a Cobra has had to replace his before. His clutch is stock though...I think. Either way, he went back together with the FMS TOB because he'd heard the same thing that others are junk.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Raynger
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Re: concentric slave cylinder

Post by Raynger »

How do you guys like the FMS King Cobra clutch in a ranger? I'm almost stock and I like the supposed revised geometry and the decreased pedal effort, but not sure if the extra clamping force will be too much for a light ranger summer driver on street tires?

I'd eventually like to go with the Cobra intake, injectors, maf, TB and a tune but seeing as it took me 8yrs to get this far I'm not counting on that any time soon. Stock, FMS or FMS King Cobra?
1988 Ford Ranger XLT - Stock injected 95 mustang Gt motor, 95 T-5 trans and wheels.
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MalcolmV8
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Re: concentric slave cylinder

Post by MalcolmV8 »

Raynger wrote:Stock, FMS or FMS King Cobra?
After playing with so many aftermarket clutches over the years I have the opinion of if the stock clutch works for you stick with it. I'm sure there are exceptions but in general I find stock clutches just work so well for the street if they are within the HP limits of your setup. Smooth engagement and good drive ability on the street etc. Remember OEM manufactures have spent millions of dollars in research and testing on their clutches and it shows.
If the HP is high enough it's demanding an aftermarket clutch don't skimp out either. Another lesson I've learned the hard way as have people who's cars I've built.

This is an extreme case but for example the GT500 I recently built is putting down over 800 wheel torque on spray and I warned him about not skimping on the clutch and he didn't. Granted that mcleod twin disk was $1600 some change but it drives like stock and is strong enough we have not had the slightest slip even though he drives it like he stole it.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

https://www.youtube.com/c/MalcolmV8
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cgrey8
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Re: concentric slave cylinder

Post by cgrey8 »

I'm quite happy with the FMS King Cobra clutch. It drives and acts like a stock clutch as far as I can tell. As for clamping force, I couldn't say how strong or lacking it is given I'm only driving a stock Explorer engine that's not exactly bursting with torque to start with. It's better than the V6, without a doubt, but hardly high output as performance engines go. And also I daily-drive the truck like a daily driver. It rarely see's high RPMs. And when I do WOT it, WOTs are quick bursts just to get me into traffic. But once I'm in traffic, I'm only going 45-55 MPH. I used to drive the Interstate to work every morning, but ever since I moved, I rarely get on the Interstate with it to enjoy the On-ramp accelerations.

I've got a different brand clutch for the 331 that's supposed to be King Cobra like. It cost up there about the same price as the King Cobra...maybe a little cheaper, but more than a stock clutch. My only concern about it is the TOB. If it is anything like the King Cobra, I don't expect any issues from it.

But yeah, heavier clutches can be a bear. I've heard nothing but bad things from people that upgrade to Stage 2 and Stage 3 clutches as they relate to streetability. The only clutches that work well on the street that also have the high torque clamping capacity are those dual-plate clutches Malcolm's talking about. They are expensive, but you get SERIOUS clamping force with near stock clutch manners on the street.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Raynger
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Re: concentric slave cylinder

Post by Raynger »

So I did a little work and thought I'd share my progress. I had an idea of how I wanted things done and decided to go for it. Its not the most cost effective way to do things, but its the way I want it at least for now. Hopefully that won't change once I get it together and find out what I overlooked.
First I removed the front bearing retainer from the 95 mustang GT T5
First I removed the front bearing retainer from the 95 mustang GT T5
I replaced it with a 2005+ v6 mustang retainer that has provisions for the newer mustang concentric slave
I replaced it with a 2005+ v6 mustang retainer that has provisions for the newer mustang concentric slave
I had to weld material and turn it on a lathe to increase the outer dimension to match the old retainer as well as relocate one of the 4 bolt holes
I had to weld material and turn it on a lathe to increase the outer dimension to match the old retainer as well as relocate one of the 4 bolt holes
1988 Ford Ranger XLT - Stock injected 95 mustang Gt motor, 95 T-5 trans and wheels.
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Raynger
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Re: concentric slave cylinder

Post by Raynger »

Now I'm ready to put it all back together with my new flywheel, valeo king cobra clutch, rear main seal, russel clutch line adapter and braided line.
Mustang concentric slave fits like it was meant to be there
Mustang concentric slave fits like it was meant to be there
Stainless line with bubble flare to fit slave and 4 AN out the existing holes in the bell
Stainless line with bubble flare to fit slave and 4 AN out the existing holes in the bell
1988 Ford Ranger XLT - Stock injected 95 mustang Gt motor, 95 T-5 trans and wheels.
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MalcolmV8
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Re: concentric slave cylinder

Post by MalcolmV8 »

Nice man!! Love seeing the innovations continue as new parts become available. The newer Mustangs have such wonderful clutch feel with their hydraulic clutches so there's a good chance yours is going to be butter smooth. Hopefully the stock master cylinder in the Ranger pushes enough fluid to work it correctly.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

https://www.youtube.com/c/MalcolmV8
User avatar
Raynger
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:37 pm
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Location: Sterling Heights, MI

Re: concentric slave cylinder

Post by Raynger »

Well I'm about due for an update. The original install went relatively smooth all the way up to the point of its first test run. I was pleasently suprised to find out that I could easily bleed the slave by compressing it and allowing the air to exit the master. Before I even fired the truck I realized I had overlooked some spacing issues. Everything was working great but once fully blead the bearing at full pedal came off the end of the retainer just enough to blow out the seal. While I watched my entire master cylinder drain slowly through the holes in the bottom of the bellhousing I couldn't help but think of cgrey8's warnings.

Since then I've measured and remeasured and came up with the solution of a spacer between the slave and transmission to put it .65" closer to the clutch. This setup has been working very well so far and feels from what I can remember much like the stock feel. The good news for anyone else out there considering this design is that i am useing a 94-95' t-5 setup wich had the bellhousing that is deeper than the earlier ones by an amount similar to the spacer I made. This means with a 93 and earlier t-5 with a modified 2005+ bearing retainer the rest is bolt on....I think...
1988 Ford Ranger XLT - Stock injected 95 mustang Gt motor, 95 T-5 trans and wheels.
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